St. Augustine is NOT the official source of Catholic teaching. I don't know if you are taking him out of context or what. But a mortal sin as taught by the Church is much more serious than what you quote the Saint on. It is an "individual act done knowingly, willingly and deliberately in a serious violation of God's will and Law." That narrows the field quite a bit! I'll presume that my wife will agree with you!
The difference is that I do not say I "choose" to persevere, if I am of the elect.
How exactly does that work? How do you "not choose" to persevere in the actions that you do?
The answer is that the fulfillment is also ordained, so it must be so. For the elect, God has already ordained that future acts will occur, regardless.
So what is the difference between you and another Christian, all things equal, who both love God and claim eternal salvation - but then, ten years from now, you are still persevering and the other is not? HOW on earth would that other Christian KNOW TODAY that he would fail in the future? Or you? We don't know we are of the elect with absolute certainty. The proof is in the claim of "you were never saved to begin with" line that you'd apply to the "fallen away" - who mysteriously did all of those good deeds without Christ - although he thought he was IN Christ during that time. I am thoroughly confused on how you can make this claim and simultaneously claim you KNOW your "salvation" is secure when you don't even know you are saved today to begin with!!!
Yes, I do believe that the elect must have knowledge of Jesus and believe on Him.
Romans and 1 John disagree with that statement. So does Jesus Himself. Paul in Romans 2 says that even the pagan can follow the law the Christ wrote on their hearts (as Jeremiah prophesied). Thus, they are spiritually circumcised and are able to obey the Commandments, even though they don't have a copy of the Decalogue. 1 John says that anyone who loves abides in Christ. Those who abide in Christ will be saved. And Jesus talks about judging the nations and separating the goats from the Sheep. Note that the principle guideline is not whether they know Christ, but whether they ACT like Christ - which can only come from God's Spirit Himself. Thus, people can be part of the Church unknowingly, as I have said before when discussing Vatican 2 and the Constitution of the Church document.
The disciples were not chosen for their education or wealth or success in the world, so I don't see why the elect should be either.
I'd have to quote hundreds of verses to show that man is expected to obey commandments, to repent, to turn from evil, etc... God does not command what cannot be done (through the use of Grace). It is my opinion that God sees our response in the same "moment" that He chooses and elects us. Being elected for grace is not the same thing as being elected for glory. Many are chosen, but few heed the call. The road is narrow...etc...REPENT and BELIEVE! YOU!
Regards
St. Augustine is NOT the official source of Catholic teaching. I don't know if you are taking him out of context or what.
WHAT??? LOL! I told you that I was quoting from New Advent, AND I gave you the direct link. Did I hack into the site? If St. Augustine was all wet about the nature of mortal sin, then why would New Advent LEAD with him in its explanation on the subject?
How exactly does that work? How do you "not choose" to persevere in the actions that you do?
It's easy. If I am of the elect, then I am capable of blowing it because I still have a remnant of sin, and most certainly use it, to my shame. Since God promises that He will lose none of His elect, the only way that will happen is if He takes it out of our hands. Otherwise, some or all would blow it. So, while in my human experience I "feel" like I'm choosing, it really isn't me at all, it is God doing His will through me.
So what is the difference between you and another Christian, all things equal, who both love God and claim eternal salvation - but then, ten years from now, you are still persevering and the other is not?
The difference is that the other one was never a Christian, and did not love God. To love God is to obey Him (persevere), right? Millions of people claim to be Christians and don't come close to obeying God. That's why I cannot say with certainty about the salvation of anyone else.
HOW on earth would that other Christian KNOW TODAY that he would fail in the future? Or you?
Now you're baiting me. :) I actually wrote down what you said from before so I wouldn't forget. :)
FK: "Yes, I do believe that the elect must have knowledge of Jesus and believe on Him."
Romans and 1 John disagree with that statement. So does Jesus Himself. Paul in Romans 2 says that even the pagan can follow the law the Christ wrote on their hearts (as Jeremiah prophesied). Thus, they are spiritually circumcised and are able to obey the Commandments, even though they don't have a copy of the Decalogue.
I was basing my statement in part on Peter in Acts 4:12: "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." I thought you agreed that all of the elect are saved. If so, how does anyone go to heaven by following the Commandments?
1 John says that anyone who loves abides in Christ. Those who abide in Christ will be saved. And Jesus talks about judging the nations and separating the goats from the Sheep. Note that the principle guideline is not whether they know Christ, but whether they ACT like Christ - which can only come from God's Spirit Himself. (emphasis added)
So, a person does not have to know Christ, he just has to love .... some unknown thing .... and abide in .... some unknown thing, and this person is saved? You are telling me right here that salvation is based on ACTS, and in the same breath you'll tell me you do not believe in a works-based salvation? Can you see why some of us have a hard time following this? :)
Being elected for grace is not the same thing as being elected for glory.
There are now TWO categories of election? So every time I see the word "elect" in the Bible, I have to guess which one? Sometimes "the elect" means everyone, and sometimes it means those who are saved? What is the point of "electing" everyone for something anyway? Doesn't the word involve the concept of choice?