Jesus took on human nature AS GOD INTENDED. In other words, it did not LACK anything. OUR own selves were born WITHOUT something. This lack of grace has wounded us, much like a disease. This disease is not our original selves, but something that results because we lack God's orignal Grace. Adam and Jesus were not born lacking anything of human nature. Thus, Adam COULD certainly have REFUSED. We believe (if I may speak for my Orthodox brother) that Adam was equipped to resist the tempter - which Jesus DID. Not because of His supernatural self, but His human self was missing nothing...
Do you allow for the possibility that Adam "would" have chosen not to sin? I do not. Otherwise, there would have been no need for Jesus, and no need for Christianity. God ordained what God ordained.
chuckle...God did not wait with baited breath to see the results of what Adam would do. He certainly KNEW what Adam would do - AND, working within Adam's free will, made something of incredible evil - the wounding of all future mankind - into something of incredible goodness - the Incarnation of our Lord and Savior. Why would God have to force anything? He knew what Adam would do and provided accordingly for all human kind.
Well, I do believe that God passes over some, and does not give the grace they would need to be saved. But I place no duty on God to give such grace to anyone. He is the potter, and I'm just thankful that He chose to give it to some.
This denies the responsibility that MEN have for their own evil actions. The Church has always taught that men have been given the power to obey God's commands. Everyone. That some don't proves that God allows free will of men to co-exist with His sovereign will. Yes, we are very thankful that He has chosen to reach down to us.
Regards
"We believe (if I may speak for my Orthodox brother) that Adam was equipped to resist the tempter - which Jesus DID. Not because of His supernatural self, but His human self was missing nothing..."
You spoke well for your Orthodox brother! :)
FK, it all comes down to what our true nature is as opposed to that distorted one we are born with on account of the Sin of Adam.
As I think I just asked Kosta, what would the world have been like had Adam simply refused? Would there have been any point to the Incarnation? ... Are you saying that the man Jesus used His free will to just choose not to sin? Are we just lucky that Jesus made good choices? Do you think God ordains anything, or what is your concept of the idea?
chuckle...God did not wait with baited breath to see the results of what Adam would do.
Well, then you are also chuckling at other Catholics! You told me yourself that some Catholics believe that God sees the decisions of man for Him, and bases His decisions for election upon them.
He certainly KNEW what Adam would do - AND, working within Adam's free will, made something of incredible evil - the wounding of all future mankind - into something of incredible goodness - the Incarnation of our Lord and Savior. Why would God have to force anything? He knew what Adam would do and provided accordingly for all human kind.(emphasis added)
GOD SCRAMBLED??? Here again are two examples of you making God dependent upon man. You have God working around man's free will decisions. You can't escape it, even as you convey the point unintentionally.
FK: "Well, I do believe that God passes over some, and does not give the grace they would need to be saved."
This denies the responsibility that MEN have for their own evil actions.
I don't think so. I believe that men are ultimately responsible for their own evil, even when they have no capacity to do "good". That is just the way that God ordered our existence. We have no standing to complain, as He is the potter.