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To: Forest Keeper
I thought you do the same in a different way, that everyone is lost until his next confession. Or, in the alternative, you might say that everyone is lost until after death, since salvation is not final until judgment day. From the human POV, I would say that a person is lost until he truly accepts Christ.

No, everyone is not lost until their next confession. First, all sins do not separate us entirely from God, so we aren't "lost" as a result of every sin. Second, we BOTH believe that man is lost until his "confession" - that "Jesus Christ is Lord" through Baptism. We then become children of God and are healed. And finally, I never said a person is lost until death. I am only saying our status is not absolutely certain. Haven't I said many times we can "know", with some confidence, that we can CURRENTLY know we are abiding in Christ? My disagreement with you is over the CERTAINTY of eternal salvation and the inability to "lose" this status, regardless of future actions.

A person cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless he accepts Christ - whether that means your concept of that, or whether that means a person abides in Christ and loves, although not knowing WHO Jesus of Nazareth was. Your concept closes the doors to billions of people who happen to have been born in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But, you do have all the scriptures that talk about the "narrow path", and your own observations from the culture, and how many self-proclaiming Christians you have known and seen who do not resemble anything at all the portrait of a Christian painted in the Bible, people who aren't even close.

Remember the thief on the cross? How about the parable of the man who was looking for labourers throughout the day, and in the end, paying EVERYONE, even the man who worked one hour, a full day's wage? Again, I think we shouldn't judge on who will achieve heaven or hell in the future. Perhaps we might be able to know, if someone was to die today, but in the future? I have given you quotes from Ezekiel that talks about the wicked man turning to God and being treated as righteous. This can happen at any stage in a person's life, even on one's death bed.

Regards

3,918 posted on 03/22/2006 4:21:32 AM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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To: jo kus
No, everyone is not lost until their next confession. First, all sins do not separate us entirely from God, so we aren't "lost" as a result of every sin.

I remember you have distinguished between venial sins and mortal sins, but still everyone commits mortal sins, so I thought your position was that they are lost until the next confession. Why else is confession necessary to salvation?

Second, we BOTH believe that man is lost until his "confession" - that "Jesus Christ is Lord" through Baptism.

Well, yes, except for the Baptism part. :)

My disagreement with you is over the CERTAINTY of eternal salvation and the inability to "lose" this status, regardless of future actions.

What you say is a OSAS approach, and I do not believe in that anymore. So, future actions do matter. I just believe in God's promises to His elect in that regard. Those actions are future included events to the salvation.

A person cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless he accepts Christ - whether that means your concept of that, or whether that means a person abides in Christ and loves, although not knowing WHO Jesus of Nazareth was. Your concept closes the doors to billions of people who happen to have been born in the wrong place at the wrong time.

How so? I don't declare for God who gets into heaven and who doesn't. God picks His elect and they will go to heaven. It only makes sense to me that He would also pick some who lived their entire lives without access to a Bible, etc. God is sovereign and makes His own perfect decisions for His own perfect reasons. I don't see how this is in conflict with my concept.

This [someone turning to Christ] can happen at any stage in a person's life, even on one's death bed.

I fully agree. God can do anything He wants, and your example of the thief is exactly right. I have always believed this.

4,037 posted on 03/25/2006 4:33:25 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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