[stripes1776]

Kolokotronis: The fact is, FK, that people don't "choose" hell; they choose to reject God because becoming like God is difficult. It requires that we reject our nature.

Forest Keeper: That's funny because I would say the exact opposite. I would say that rejecting God is only following our nature.

I think you have bumped up against one of the major differences between Eastern and Western Christianity. And understanding this difference is the key to unlocking the meaning of the Patristic writings.

In the West, "nature" and "grace" are in opposition to each other. In the East, man's "nature" becomes itself only in "grace". Here is the way John Meyendorff expresses the difference in Byzantine Theology:

Grace gives man his "natural" development. This basic presupposition explains why the terms "nature" and "grace", when used by Byzantine authors, have a meaning quite different from the Western usage; rather than being in direct opposition, the terms "nature" and "grace" express a dynamic, living, and necessary relation between God and man.

The distinction, I think, explains why the respective positions about the bondage of the will and free will can never be reconciled, at least not in the way the current debate is framed.

[Kolokotronis]

"Grace gives man his "natural" development. This basic presupposition explains why the terms "nature" and "grace", when used by Byzantine authors, have a meaning quite different from the Western usage; rather than being in direct opposition, the terms "nature" and "grace" express a dynamic, living, and necessary relation between God and man."

Very good, S! :) Put another way, grace allows us the opportunity to fulfill our created purpose. Eastern and Western Christianity are very, very different.

[Forest Keeper]

In the West, "nature" and "grace" are in opposition to each other. In the East, man's "nature" becomes itself only in "grace".

Thanks for your post, Stripes. That does help me to understand the fundamental difference much better.