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To: jo kus; annalex
Catholics trust in what God has revealed through the Apostles, the teachings from God.

"As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed....Take heed, brother."


3,700 posted on 03/18/2006 1:48:05 AM PST by HarleyD ("A man's steps are from the Lord, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24 (HNV))
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To: HarleyD
Oh, really? I don't believe I caught from the Apostles the part of praying to dead people or purgatory. If memory serves me correctly many of these policies were made by the Church-not the Apostles.

I think you're right, Harley. Although, I think the argument for those things is to be found in the book of Maccabees (sp?) which isn't part of the King James. Also, there does seem to be a Hebraic tradition to praying either for or to the dead, I'm not totally sure, to be honest with you.

But, be that as it may, neither Sts. Paul or Peter seem to reference these in any way, to say nothing of referencing them in a compulsory way, in their instructions to Faithful.

I really don't believe that what was expected of the Roman, Galatian, Ephesian, Thessalonian Christians, that St. Paul ministered to, in order to be held to be in Communion with the Church, in order to partake of the Eucharist for the nourishment of the Soul, was the same as it is today.

How can it be that what was expected of those people to be in Communion, an aspect so vital to the Faith as it relates to the Eucharist, can be so different from what is expected today? It seems to me that these mutable requirements do represent a new Gospel. Is it logical that a Christian from one epoch would be ineligible to be thought in Communion in another, based on a new set of standards?

3,707 posted on 03/18/2006 5:09:50 AM PST by AlbionGirl (The Doctrine of God's Sovereignty has restored my Christian Youth.)
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To: HarleyD
James (the true first Pope)

St. James was the bishop of Jerusalem, as the book of Acts makes clear, and St. Peter was not a pope yet.

3,721 posted on 03/18/2006 1:03:40 PM PST by annalex
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To: HarleyD; annalex
Oh, really? I don't believe I caught from the Apostles the part of praying to dead people or purgatory. If memory serves me correctly many of these policies were made by the Church-not the Apostles.

They are dimly seen in Scriptures themselves - thus, it is perfectly correct to see that the Apostles taught these concepts in nascient form from the beginning. For example, how much of a stretch is it between these two verses:

I am certain that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor powers nor things present nor things to come nor height nor depth nor any creature shall be able to separate us from the charity of God, which is in Christ, Jesus our Lord" Romans 8:38-39

And

"The effectual prayer of the righteous [is] very powerful." James 5:16

To come up with prayers of intercessions from the righteous who have died physically but are with Christ? It is certainly a Scriptural teaching that can be clearly inferred from the Scritpures. There are other verses that also speak to the belief that the prayers of the righteous were efficient, for example in the Book of Revelation. Christian practice of the very first century shows that it is a legitimate concept that was taught by the Church. It didn't just crop up somewhere and then it caught on gradually as the "heresy" spread. The people on the ground must have believed it came from the Apostles, or they wouldn't have done it.

Funny, James (the true first Pope) said if you want wisdom ask it of God. One would have thought he would have said, "Run to Peter."

James isn't the first "true Pope". Get over it. And wisdom comes from God, not man. I don't think the Church ever makes the claim to ignore God and seek wisdom in man. The Church's claim to infalliblity and correct teachings stem from God's own protection, not the "wisdom of man".

Regards

3,728 posted on 03/18/2006 1:34:17 PM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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