What is the implied contradiction? The passage you quote does not say that all men seek the Lord. It says that some do. What does this have to do with Romans? Besides, you still haven't answered my question about the significance of what Paul is saying under your interpretation. The wicked sin? Call the New York Times. OTOH, it would be a useful piece of theology if Paul meant that all are born into sin and that all will fall short of the glory of God. It would have taken him a quarter of a breath to excuse Mary, but he didn't.
Why does God's Spirit intercede for us today if "all is done"?
It is simply the execution of one of God's promises. You rely on this idea all the time when you say that the Spirit continues to guide the Church. If one relies on God being good on His promises, then it is considered already done, but for the actual execution. If one does not have reliance, then one waits and hopes that God will fulfill His word.
You want your cake and eat it too. What you give in the beginning (Jesus intercedes for us today) is taken away (His work to pay for our sins was complete) in the next sentence. Is Christ active or not? Is His "work" finished?
It is finished, as far as we need be concerned regarding justification. The only thing left is execution. If one believes God keeps His promises then it is as good as done. If one does not, then he hopes and waits that God will deliver. Christ and the Spirit also continue to work to sanctify us. This is a future included promise in the salvation model. And yes, I love eating cake. :)
And some will not ask for this forgiveness that Christ has won for all men, correct? Thus, Christ died for ALL men, but ALL men will not ASK for that gift that was won by our Savior.
All of God's elect will ask for forgiveness via God's grace. All others will not be able to with a true heart. Anyone can say the words, it doesn't make it efficacious. Therefore, it is unnecessary that Christ died for the lost.
You are in denial.
"he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained. " John 20:22-23
The Apostles were to be witnesses to God's power, not practitioners of it. They were to give the message that those who repent and believe in Jesus can be assured of forgiveness, and those who refuse to repent can be assured that their sins are not forgiven. Who is a sin against? If you believe that a sin is against God, then that shows that the Apostles had no standing to forgive sins. If I hurt someone else, you have no standing to forgive me. It is the same here. The Apostles were declaring, WITH authority, what God would do if someone asked Him for forgiveness.
"God asks you through us". God beseeches you by us". "WE pray YOU be in God's good graces". Of course God is doing the reconciling - THROUGH "us", men who have been previously been given such authority.
Does God do anything without man's help? I don't know how God gets through a day, if it weren't for man to assist Him. We appear to be indispensable.
Your version of God does not love man unconditionally, does He? Christ died for all men. Unconditionally.
What can I say? That's fair enough. If God loved all men, then all men would be saved.
So Jesus KNEW that His teachings would fall on deaf ears - but He did it anyways. BUT. Jesus DID NOT DIE for all men, even though that would ALSO fall on deaf ears. I have discovered another inconsistent statement of your theology.
There is no inconsistency. In the first, Jesus was teaching both His then audience, although He knew for some if would have no effect, and He was also teaching US that we should spread the Gospel to everyone. In the second, He died. He didn't need to teach us how to die. It's a completely different concept. Besides, you are the one who is inconsistent using this logic. You know Jesus gave truth to the lawgivers, and you know they were not saved. Yet, you say that Christ died for all men. That doesn't match. The only way you can be consistent is to show that everyone Jesus ever spoke to was saved, and there is no way you can show that.
Christians are CALLED to LOVE as God loves. How could you not know that? Of course God loves Satan. But Satan, sadly, is the Prodigal Son who never will return. Satan is part of God's plan. Without Satan, how could man have received the Incarnation? (emphasis added)
This is astounding. I never knew this was Catholic teaching. Yes, satan is part of God's plan, but the scripture in no way supports your assertion that God loves him, or the non-elect sinner.
Ps. 5:5 : The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong.
Ps. 11:5 : The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.
Lev. 20:23 : You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them.
Prov. 6:16-19 : 16 There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.(emphasis added)
Hos. 9:15 : "Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there. Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house. I will no longer love them; all their leaders are rebellious.
What, God hates them all in the good way? :)
I will disagree with you until you can prove that 10 years from now, you will continue to abide in Christ...
Then you will have to wait 10 years, since you have already said there is no proof you would accept. :)
Lord, give me patience...
Blessed [are] they that keep his testimonies, [and that] seek him with the whole heart. They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways. Psalms 119:2-3
With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments. Ps 119:10
There is none righteous, no, not one. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Romans 3:10-11
It should be painfully obvious that your theology contradicts the Scriptures found in many Psalms, such as Psalm 119. Men DO seek out God. But according to you, NO MEN seek God - since you take the literal and universal definition of "all". Either Paul is a fool, or he is talking about somehting else. A study of other Psalms will quickly point you in the right direction - he is talking about evil Jews, NOT ALL men!
If one relies on God being good on His promises, then it is considered already done, but for the actual execution. If one does not have reliance, then one waits and hopes that God will fulfill His word.
"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die." Ez 18:24
Keep dreaming. I suppose since you have "x" amount of faith, (as ALL Protestants claim) you can declare yourself saved.
It {the Spirit interceding today} is simply the execution of one of God's promises
Why would the Spirit intercede if all is done? How is His intercession the execution of God's promises?
If one relies on God being good on His promises, then it is considered already done, but for the actual execution. If one does not have reliance, then one waits and hopes that God will fulfill His word.
All of God's elect will ask for forgiveness via God's grace.
Yes, but your theology's fatal assumption is "only the elect ask for God's forgiveness". Thus, those who recite the Sinner's Prayer are of the elect. It doesn't follow that asking once for forgiveness makes one of the elect. Hasn't Scripture told us that people DO fall away?
The Apostles were to be witnesses to God's power, not practitioners of it
So now you are saying that the Apostles, by their own power, raised the dead??
If you believe that a sin is against God, then that shows that the Apostles had no standing to forgive sins. If I hurt someone else, you have no standing to forgive me. It is the same here
Brother, are you familiar with the Lord's Prayer? ...AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US...
Sin is not only against God, but it is a disruption of our relationship with other people. If I were to murder someone's wife, doesn't that somehow effect my relationship with that woman's family???
The Apostles were declaring, WITH authority, what God would do if someone asked Him for forgiveness.
Again, you are twisting Scripture, claiming what is not there!
Whose soever sins you remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] you retain, they are retained."
The simple reading is that God gave man the power to forgive sins - through men that had received the Spirit in a special way. Nothing there about man declaring God's forgiveness already given!
There is no inconsistency. In the first, Jesus was teaching both His then audience, although He knew for some if would have no effect, and He was also teaching US that we should spread the Gospel to everyone. In the second, He died. He didn't need to teach us how to die. It's a completely different concept
There is no consistency? So Jesus' entire life is a self giving to ALL men - He teaches to the Scribes and Pharisees who will not accept Him. He teaches men about eating His flesh and blood, and they leave Him anyways. But now, His GREATEST ACT, Christ doesn't share Himself with all men? Your argument is unconvincing and inconsistent because it would cause your house of cards to collapse, not because it is Scripture. You are defending a position that has little Scripture support, and NO Christian tradition support.
If God loved all men, then all men would be saved.
Based on your definition of love - it should come as no surprise that you'd say this. You believe that love is something that is forced upon someone else. I suppose rape is a good example of love in your eyes. "Sure, the woman felt good afterwards, you know it was for her own good"....Gack, I can hardly write it.
Yes, satan is part of God's plan, but the scripture in no way supports your assertion that God loves him, or the non-elect sinner.
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Ez 18: 21-22
God does not desire the death of men, although Calvin would have it so.
"For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn [yourselves], and live ye." Ez 18:32
How sad that you have this concept that God hates us! If there is one theme re-occuring in the Scriptures, it is God's love for mankind!
I [am] the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it. But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me. So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: [and] they walked in their own counsels. Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, [and] Israel had walked in my ways! I should soon have subdued their enemies, and turned my hand against their adversaries. Ps 81:10-14
I actually feel sorry for a person who thinks that God makes people so as to condemn them to eternal hell and death. I feel sorry for such people who do not truly know the love that God has for us. It appears to me that your idea of salvation is a crap-shoot based on random choice, rather than a lover responding to His beloved. This is NOT Christianity - the teachings of Jesus Christ.
I'll pray for the Spirit to enlighten you about His love for mankind.