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To: Forest Keeper
Sorry, no contradiction here. :) Why do you reject the truth that real faith comes with real love for God?

"Real" faith? Does the Scripture define the difference between "real" faith and "unreal" faith? If I was to broaden my definition of faith to include love, hope, repentance, conversion, and perseverance - well, then I guess I am saved by "faith" alone. However, faith does not include all of these other attributes. They are distinguished from each other in Scripture! Thus, we are NOT saved by faith ALONE. We are saved with combinations of all of the above.

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" James 2:14

"if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 13:2

As you can see, a faith that lacks works of love is pointless. Notice how the Bible DISTINGUISHES between faith and love. One CAN have faith, "real" faith, without love. REAL faith to move mountains! Does it get anymore real than that??? However, this is not a question of "real" faith, but adding love (from God) to our faith (from God). James and Paul agree, but defining the opposing sides of the same coin.

Faith without works is dead. James.

Works without faith is dead. Paul.

If you don't have faith AND works (of love), then you are dead. Thus, faith ALONE, without love, doesn't save anyone.

Regards

3,623 posted on 03/16/2006 4:11:38 AM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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To: jo kus
"Real" faith? Does the Scripture define the difference between "real" faith and "unreal" faith? If I was to broaden my definition of faith to include love, hope, repentance, conversion, and perseverance - well, then I guess I am saved by "faith" alone. However, faith does not include all of these other attributes. They are distinguished from each other in Scripture! Thus, we are NOT saved by faith ALONE. We are saved with combinations of all of the above.

I do believe that faith includes all those things you listed. Therefore, a false faith can be found in the verses you quote. How else does Eph. 2:8-9 make sense? Haven't you said yourself that everything comes from God? That's what I mean. In James, it specifically notes a man who "SAYS" he has faith. Anyone can say that.

Notice how the Bible DISTINGUISHES between faith and love. One CAN have faith, "real" faith, without love. REAL faith to move mountains! Does it get anymore real than that???

What do you think is meant by "moving mountains"? Do you take it literally? Can the Pope move mountains with his real faith? I take it to be a metaphor for doing lots of good deeds. This again describes a false faith. It is worthless. Only real faith from God, which includes love and perseverance, etc. saves.

3,743 posted on 03/18/2006 10:38:40 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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