It's a grave error to assume a different God resides in the two Testaments. God accomplishes what He "desires" everyday, all day.
The New Testament is a fulfillment of the Old Testament. It is the preface to the work of the Gospel. But God does not contradict Himself.
I was reading John 8 last night -- an amazing declaration by Jesus Christ as to whom He has come to save. Seems Jesus was much more specific that you give Him credit for.
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." -- John 8:37-59"I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
That's pretty strong stuff. Christ is speaking to God-believing Jews who consider themselves the sons of Abraham. Yet Christ is telling them they are the sons of the devil. Why?
Because they could not hear Him.
"My word hath no place in you...He that is of God heareth God's words."
Why could they not hear Him and thus keep His words?
Because they were "not of God."
Christ came to redeem the sheep whom God has given Him, from among Jews and Gentiles, thieves and princes, rich and poor, from all nations and races.
Men should follow Christ's example: all glory to God alone.
If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me"
Salvation is not earned. Salvation is given by the free grace of our merciful God. Saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
I've mentioned a few times already now how much I need the fellowship of my brothers and sisters in Christ, and so I want you to know that I appreciate the connection I have with you, however precariously it flows in this most blessed ethernet. Most especially you, Dr. E.
When I profess to believe in the Doctrine of God's Sovereignty, I profess to believe in the inexorable Sovereignty of God's Good and Perfect Will. That, while according to the thinking therein, as it concerns one's election, I should be assured of my salvation, I cannot say that I know in my heart that I am saved, but I'm not troubled with anxiety about that as all is in God's Blessed Hands.
I live each day with the knowledge that God's ways are not my ways, that I'm not capable of understanding the Glorious Mind of God, and also with the Hope that He grant me that true humility which asserts, without reservation, Thy Will be Done.
I ask Our Good Lord, that if I am destined for Hell, He grant me the Last Favor of Loving Him there too. Of proclaiming Him and His Love, even there and ever more, though my fate be a Promethean one, and the suffering be magnified on account of it.
That, adding Hail Mary's, Novenas, Our Father's will avail me little, if anything at all, as it relates to the interregnum between death and the day when I find if I'm truly one of His Sheep or one of His Goats.
As to the issue of who the God haters are, I think they are those who trifle with God's Commandments, who trifle with His Word. Those who establish what is damnable sin today, only to disestablish it a few days hence, without remorse. Those who terrorize the Children of God with the doctrines of men, with vicious zeal.
While I admit to not really knowing if our free-will has the capacity for goodness, in and of itself, I want to note that the theology that explicates the possibility of such seems peppered with egoism, besotted with the idea that we have the capacity to understand how and why God ordains all things, and prone to implying that God The Father, as presented by the blessed prophets of the Old Testament has been rendered silent, and that Christ, in fulfillment of the Law, rendered Him so.
I appreciate the pings, Dr. E, and hope you continue to include me in them, but I'm not sure how much further I'm going to carry this debate. I'm thinking of Paul's admonishment concerning being full of debate, and thinking it might be a good thing to dutifully heed his blessed advice.
I don't quote Scripture all that often, because I need to Study the Blessed Word a lot more, before I feel comfortable doing so, but I do want to leave you with the following as it faithfully captures my sense of where I am in my walk with God.
"Acquaint now thyself with Him, and be at peace: thereby good shall come unto thee." Job 22:21.
I agree. But I also believe it is a grave error to not recognize the two different PORTRAYALS of God in the two Testaments. We are to read the OT in light of the NT. It is a grave error to read the OT as if it contained our full revelation of Who God is.
But God does not contradict Himself.
This is not at issue. It is man reading God's Word incorrectly that is at issue. MAN who refuses to see that the OT is incomplete and imperfect are in danger of missing out on the Gospel message.
Seems Jesus was much more specific that you give Him credit for.
What are you talking about? What does John 8 prove about the Old Testament? By Jesus saying "they could not hear Him", doesn't this make it obvious that men were misinterpreting the "plain text" of the Scripture???
Salvation is not earned. Salvation is given by the free grace of our merciful God. Saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Yes, thank you. Who here disagrees with that?
Regards