Thank you for the info on confession.
First, Baptism leaves an indelible mark. We will always be God's children. But as a result of our own separation, we walk away from God - sometimes, permanently - just like children sometimes disown their own parents (although they are still children of their parents).
Are you saying that everyone who is Baptized is a child of God? If so, then how do you explain verses like this? :
Rom. 8:14-17 : 14 ... because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
How do you explain verse 17? If we are children, then we are heirs. I have to assume the Catholic translation would be "If we are children, we MAY BECOME heirs, at some point in the future, which no one except God can know. No child of God is an heir by any means until after death." I suppose this is the plain meaning and intent of the verse? How about this one? :
John 1:12-13 : 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
Babies cannot believe in His name. Yet, you say that they, and any other non-believer who has been Baptized, are still children of God. Doesn't this passage clearly say that such do not have the right as of yet? Under your view, many of God's children slip through His fingers, don't they?
FK: "Would that have meant that the son disinherited himself? I would say that's impossible because the son already received his rightful inheritance before he even left."
I think that takes the story beyond what Christ meant. Otherwise, there would be no reason to return to the Father.
Sure there would be. Forgiveness and reconciliation are very good reasons. While the son could not lose his inheritance, he still wanted to be forgiven and be reconciled to his father. That's what Jesus teaches us. Those who are already saved (already have their inheritance sealed), but have fallen away, will always come back to the Father. He has ordained it.
The elect cannot disinherit themselves, because God will cause something (famine) to happen that He knows will turn the man's free will back onto course. Does God do this for others? Yes, but their free will will resist God's "famines". The Prodigal Son realized he had sinned. Those that God foresees are the reprobate will NOT realize they have sinned - even despite the famines of their lives.
For the elect, God will CAUSE something that He knows will turn the man's FREE WILL? How free is that? It sounds like you are agreeing with my "offer you can't refuse" idea. :) By what you said, it appears that God is treating all of His children the same in that He gives them all "famines". It's just that with some of His famines He causes a change, and with others nothing will happen. The only conclusion, from what you have said, is that God does not love His children equally. Either that, OR, that God did not have the power to cause the others to likewise come back.
IF we indeed share in His sufferings, IN ORDER THAT we may also share in His glory.
IF.
If we are children, then we are heirs. I have to assume the Catholic translation would be "If we are children, we MAY BECOME heirs, at some point in the future, which no one except God can know. No child of God is an heir by any means until after death." I suppose this is the plain meaning and intent of the verse? How about this one? :
Simple. We are heirs of God, IF we persevere in Christ, we will receive our reward in heaven - our glory with Christ. As Paul says elsewhere, implied here as well, a person can disinherit HIMSELF from what God has offered. Consult 1 Cor 6:9-10, for example, verses written to "saved Christians, heirs of Christ". Seems quite clear by the literal interpretation.
We are always children of God, but we will not receive our inheritance if we do those things mentioned by Paul that separates us from Christ. (John calls deadly sins)
Babies cannot believe in His name. Yet, you say that they, and any other non-believer who has been Baptized, are still children of God.
And Jews, including Jesus, was circumcised at 8 days. Is God now going from a greater to a lesser Covenant by restricting the members of the Church? Also, YOUR faith??? IF faith is a gift (which it is), then why do YOU need to proclaim it to receive Baptism? It is already within you as a seed given by God when He predestined the elect!
Please remember that the first Christians were preaching to adults - bringing the Gospel to people required that they understood it, so that they would recognize that the Old Covenant was incomplete. Babies cannot make that identification. However, it is understood that parents, by proxy, make such identifications for them. Jesus told the Apostles to not prevent the little ones from coming to Him. But that is what you do by withholding Baptism to someone who makes a faith declaration (which isn't even from them!)
Forgiveness and reconciliation are very good reasons. While the son could not lose his inheritance, he still wanted to be forgiven and be reconciled to his father.
He had lost his inheritance already. Jesus is not speaking about "eternal reward" in this parable.
Those who are already saved (already have their inheritance sealed), but have fallen away, will always come back to the Father. He has ordained it.
Saved in who's point of view? The person or God? Since we don't know God's mind, this doesn't help much in "KNOWING" that a 'saved' person will return to God. "Saved" people are falling away all the time - so much for the self-proclamation of being saved.
For the elect, God will CAUSE something that He knows will turn the man's FREE WILL? How free is that?
If a person makes a choice where he is not compelled by necessity, it is a free will choice. A person can ALWAYS look at famine or any other suffering as something from God meant to call him back, OR as something random or NOT from God - and reject this call. Free will.
By what you said, it appears that God is treating all of His children the same in that He gives them all "famines".
God chastizes His sons to bring them back. Hebrews 11 or 12 I am sure makes that statement (don't have a bible with me). It is our free will attitude towards these chastizements that determines whether we will return to God or not. God doesn't force us, but He certainly guides us and sends graces to us.
The only conclusion, from what you have said, is that God does not love His children equally.
AHH! NOW we're getting somewhere. Yes, that is part of the mystery of God's Providence and election of the predestined. It is apparent that some of God's children will disinherit Him. God loves all humans, but applies His gifts differently to different people. We don't know why.
Regards