[jo kus]

God did not change in character or nature from the Old to the New. He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

HE didn't change, but man's understanding of Him changed, correct? The OT did not have total understanding of God's attributes - unless properly read in light of the NT. Thus, the Jews had difficulties with a suffering servant as the Messiah...

(Regarding Ephesians quote) Being sealed doesn't mean that WE will infallibly go to heaven, nor is an indication of permanent presence. Being marked by God is only the first step in the process, our first installment. The many verses I have given you quite recently show that even a "marked" person can fall away from God, returning to the vomit of his former life (says Peter)

I would suggest some research but you'll find that I completely correct on this particular matter.

I disagree. Christ talks about love. It is His only commandment - to love others as He had loved us. Christ mentions hell and punishment for those who turn away from God. But His teachings on the fulfilment of the Law, esp. seen in the Sermon on the Mount, are based on love. His table habits, His view on legalism - based on love. His whole life is based on love of man, even though we were in sin. I think your reading of the Gospels are incorrect and miss the point. One of Jesus' main purpose of teaching men was to show us what God was like, in human form. To model Jesus is to see God in action in human form. All based on love - not vengeful wrath.

The flooding of the world and drowning just about all the inhabitances is not a passive response I would say.

That is true. But that doesn't discount all of everything else I have said. It is something that is beyond me, except that God does things for His own reasons. Because God reaches out actively in time doesn't mean that He actively reprobates.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, ...who is protected by the power of God through faith..." 1 Peter 1:3-5

This doesn't say anything about God actively condemning the reprobate. It merely says what Catholics already say - that God predestines the elect and actively secures their salvation. On this subject, where we disagree is our knowledge of WHO the elect are. You seem to have inside knowledge of this, to include 20 years from now, that you will remain the elect, despite all of the many verses I quote you to the contrary. How about this one from Peter?

"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:5-10

Regards

[HarleyD]

HE didn't change, but man's understanding of Him changed, correct?

As a matter of fact I would say yes, our understanding has changed. Today's belief is not the same as Peter, Paul, John, Augustine, and many of the early church fathers. Now we have our Church/church leaders stating Jews, Muslins and who know who else are covered under the covenant of God. This was never the position of the Church/church for 1900 years. This is just ONE of the many corrupt doctrine being perpetuated today. Man's understanding of God is always tainted by our corrupt beliefs and today it is just plain warped.

On this subject, where we disagree is our knowledge of WHO the elect are.

Yes. I believe I can rest assured in my salvation but I can't know about others based upon what scripture tells me. You believe you know who is in heaven and pray to them but can't be sure about your own based upon what the Church tells you.

You've told me that even though you must come to God you really don't know if you have God's grace. Therefore you must work for God to secure your salvation. So much for the "grace" of God. God will give you grace but only if you cooperate with Him. Even then you don't know if God is giving you grace.

This makes a lot of sense. /sarcasm off

[Forest Keeper]

(Regarding Ephesians quote) Being sealed doesn't mean that WE will infallibly go to heaven, nor is an indication of permanent presence.

Really? What is your interpretation of what a "seal" meant in Biblical times? Do you really think that it had nothing to do with permanence? What did Kings use to finalize a message or a decree? What does the Pope use today? In the following verse, it is the wife speaking to her husband about their marriage:

Song of Solomon 8:6 : Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame.

Does that sound like a temporary seal to you? :) A seal is SERIOUS business. (See also Gen. 38:18) For goodness sakes, what do the seals in Revelation mean to you if they are not permanent? Are they subject to change?