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To: annalex
It get annoying when, shown the scripture your response is "that's what the Church teaches". My Church teaches scripture.

I don't mean to be annoying-just obnoxious. You've totally ignore Paul's statements:

How can you possibly say "Eve takes the decision following her own judgement" when she was deceived? Is this free will? Was she following after her own judgment?

If I told you I have a bridge to sell you and you gave me $100 bucks for it and I gave you a piece of paper, you might have "freely" given me the money but you certainly didn't make a wise decision based upon the information provided. I deceived you. Would you say that you made the best decision based upon your judgment? I doubt it. Most people would rightfully complain their judgment was clouded by my deceit.

Same with Eve. She was tricked, duped into her actions. If you want to contrast Eve with Mary then you have to say Mary was duped into her actions as well.

3,309 posted on 03/06/2006 5:12:37 PM PST by HarleyD ("A man's steps are from the Lord, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24 (HNV))
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To: HarleyD; annalex
How can you possibly say "Eve takes the decision following her own judgement" when she was deceived? Is this free will?

We can never know the whole truth about anything and are therefore always deceived, HD. Does that mean that, for the knowledge at hand, we do not make a free decision to will and act?

There are two possibilities: either Eve made a foolish decision, but a decision nonetheless, believing it was good, or God forced the Serpent to deceive and Eve to believe his deception. I have no problem believeing the former but the latter is not the humble and loving God we know in Christ.

3,315 posted on 03/06/2006 5:58:36 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: HarleyD
How can you possibly say "Eve takes the decision following her own judgement" when she was deceived? Is this free will? Was she following after her own judgment?

Yes she was deceived, and yes she was following her own judgement. It was not the issue so I did not comment on it, but I am not ignoring it. Both Eve and Mary used their own judgement and Eve chose wrongly and Mary correctly. Therein is their symmetry.

No, the serpent's actions were not from the Lord. Read Genesis 3 and tell me if it teaches anything different.

3,316 posted on 03/06/2006 6:46:18 PM PST by annalex
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