Agrarian is hardly a "newbie" FK.
LOL! I can tell THAT! I just meant that since Agrarian said that he used to believe as I did and then converted, this means that at some point he WAS a newbie. Kolo said that he knew of others from my faith who also converted to Orthodox, so I just made the comparison. No insult intended! :)
In fact, the Church of the first 1,000 years had no special teaching about BEV Mary. Dealing with early heresies that questioned the divinity or even the humanity of Christ, the Church made a firm statement that Mary is Theotokos, the Mother of God. That is the extent of the Church doctrine of Mary, which remains the only doctrine of BEV Mary in the Orthodox Church.
OK, thanks for that. So, then the 1854 Catholic holding of infallible doctrine concerning Mary is something you do not agree with? I have noticed differences between you all and your Catholic brethren on Mary, so rather than try to start a food fight over specifics, :) why do these differences appear to be "no big deal"? I know you're not miles apart, but I just would have guessed that beliefs on Mary would be pretty important.
FK: "The latter God would stand by helplessly IF it turned out that every man chose to reject Him. Under this view, the Godhead "COULD" wind up alone in Heaven."
If it turned out, FK? You are either more naïve than I thought or just unwilling to admit that God is not limited in time and is not waiting for us to know His next move!
Well, I'm not sure how naive you think I am, :) but I'm not sure you're picking up on my intended point. That is, under your system, it is POSSIBLE for all to freely choose against God, so that COULD have happened. That's free will, right? (Under my system, that would NOT be possible.) Yes, God knows already what the end result is, so, according to my knowledge of your beliefs, as it really turns out, God is just extra lucky that anyone chose Him, because He doesn't move anyone to action. God gives some "guidance", but, as far as I can tell, the final decision is all in our hands according to your beliefs. Just as you say later "the decisions you make will determine your fate". I believe that God determines our fate.
The fact that He knows what will happen to you and when, does not mean He forces you to make those decisions; ...
I have always agreed that these are separate ideas and not casually linked. I also hold that while God does know who is of His elect, all of them will be saved.
Your decisions do not change His plan, FK, I have told you that a number of times. His Plan has already been accomplished; ...
On this much I would always agree with you completely. :)
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Completely off this topic, at this second I am watching a History Channel show on the anti-Christ. In the mix of experts and authorities they have been going back to for knowledgeable comment is none other than Benny Hinn! You were more right than I knew! :)
There is no basis for it in the Orthodox phronema (mindset), because our understanding of the original sin is not Augustinian; never was, which is at the foundation of that dogma. We do agree with our Latin brothers that she was immaculate but was not conceived that way.
...why do these differences appear to be "no big deal"? I know you're not miles apart, but I just would have guessed that beliefs on Mary would be pretty important
It is important and it used to be a subject of heated debates among us and Catholics. However, we have come to understand that such theological issues can be resolved only in a a general or ecumenical council that is yet to take place after more than 1,200 years.
We recognize and know our differences in teaching and we also recognize that it is no different than, say, some fathers teaching filioque or original sin (i.e. +Augustine) and parts of the Church not being in agreement.
Until such a Council meets, we have agreed and the Pope has been instrumental in this, along with a general movement towards Patristic mindset in the Western Church, to concentrate on our common theology (which is 99%) and leave the difficult issues that divide us still to a future Council which, by the way, cannot take place until the role and scope of papacy is agreed upon (under current discussion between the two particular Churches).
There has been a slight set-back in this when recently the Pope decided to drop his title as the "Patriarch of the West" whereby such a move indicates that he is "outside" or "over" other Patriarchs, not as one of the Patriarchs, among whom he is senior in dignity, but rather as the Patriarch of the Church in title and not in honor.
I have not eard much more on this since then. However, if that is an attempt to place himself above other Patriarchs, the talks are doomed.