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To: jo kus; HarleyD
It is God's WILL that men and women do not divorce. It was God's intent that men do NOT issue a bill of divorce. Jesus corrects the Pharisees. It is God's Will STILL that men and women do not divorce.It is God's Will STILL that men and women do not divorce. Yet, Protestants and non-Christians continue to divorce. They continue to reject God's WRITTEN WILL!

You left out that Catholic divorce/annulment rates are similar to any other Christian sect. Are you really going to argue that annulment is not equivalent to divorce? "Bill of Divorce" is bad, but annulment is OK? If this is your position, you see no conflict with the spirit of what Jesus was saying? Did Jesus speak of annulment?

3,253 posted on 03/05/2006 9:36:55 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; jo kus

"Are you really going to argue that annulment is not equivalent to divorce?"

There are occasionally real annulments -- even the Orthodox Church will on rare occasions grant one (and Protestants and non-Christians, too, occasionally seek annulments, albeit through secular legal channels.)

But for the most part, you are correct that annulments in the Catholic church are just divorce called by another name. Were this not true, Catholic annulment rates shouldn't be much different from Orthodox or Protestant annulment rates -- unless Catholics are just far more prone to entering into illicit marriages than are Orthodox or Protestants.

Instead, Catholic annulment rates are far more comparable to non-Catholic divorce rates than they are to non-Catholic annulment rates. Which simply proves that these are really just "Catholic divorces."

Which is why in the Orthodox Church, we have ecclesiastical divorces. They exist for the same reason that they existed in Mosaic law -- the weakness of man and the hardness of our hearts. We face it and acknowledge that this particular marriage failed, and that repentance is called for.

But back to the point: where is God's sovereignty, if it is not God's will that man (certainly his chosen ones) not divorce, and yet it happens?

The alternative is to say that divorce is frequently very much God's will -- or that God doesn't have a will in this regard one way or another -- or that divorce is a sign that the people getting divorced are not among the elect.

Jo kus would have made a much better point had he simply said that it is clearly not God's will that divorce happen -- and yet it does, amongst everyone, Catholics included. Trying to favorably compare Catholics to non-Catholics in this regard is not particularly helpful in making the overall point that God's will is always good and never evil. It is man's rejection of God's will that creates the evil.


3,256 posted on 03/05/2006 10:36:56 PM PST by Agrarian
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To: Forest Keeper
Are you really going to argue that annulment is not equivalent to divorce? "Bill of Divorce" is bad, but annulment is OK?

An annulment is a finding that declares that a marriage was never properly entered into between the two parties. The Church requires that both parties enter into an indissoluble union that is faithful, free, and open to life. If either party enters into the marriage covenant not fully intending any of the above, or there is an impediment that is later discovered, the marriage never occured. Considering how our culture emphasizes the self to the exclusion of the other, is it surprising that many people enter into a "marriage" with the idea that if one is not "fulfilled", they intend on leaving the union? How can this then be considered a valid marriage if one has such an attitude?

If this is your position, you see no conflict with the spirit of what Jesus was saying? Did Jesus speak of annulment?

Yes, He gave an example of an exception that would invalidate the marriage - if one had married their brother or sister. (incest)

Regards

3,264 posted on 03/06/2006 4:23:44 AM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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