Sounds a lot like Baptism, and not the "Sinner's Prayer" that regenerates someone, doesn't it? I believe the model in this subject, as in other Christian subjects, is Christ's own Baptism.
I KNEW you were going to say that. :) That's why I included the author's view of Baptism being symbolic. I think both of us take parts of Christ's baptism, but not all. I say that the Spirit indwells before the ritual of Baptism, and you say that a non-believer should be Baptized. Neither of these views exactly matches Christ's Baptism.
[From the article:] Regeneration is monergistic: that is, entirely the work of God the Holy Spirit.
Of course it is. But it doesn't follow that we are not expected to respond to God's gift by repenting and converting. God gives us the ability to do it - we are told we are to do it (Jesus said: "{YOU} REPENT and BELIEVE" - Not "God Repents for you" or "God believes for you", or "Don't worry, your God has chosen all people standing among us as the elect. ...
I would say from God's POV it is more than expected for the elect, it is guaranteed. But of course from our POV, we cannot take a "no worries" attitude. We experience the choosing of belief and repentance.
Protestants make the claim that they know that THEY are IRRESISTIBLY SAVED! Men CANNOT EVER LOSE their salvation, no matter what they do! However, in case something in the future, say 40 years from now, happens to make them reject the faith, well, naturally, they weren't saved to begin with! That's your side's argument. Frankly, it isn't Biblical.
Part of this sounds like a OSAS position, which I do not subscribe to. I don't believe a person can claim salvation and then do whatever he wants. If he is saved, he will want to do what God wants. I rely only on God's promises in the Bible (as detailed in the earlier article) for my assurance. We just disagree on who the intended audience is for much of the Bible. I think that the whole Bible was written for the benefit of all believers. When you throw out all of the passages in the article because no one can know if he is of the elect, then you render all of the passages completely useless to the average believer. They have no value.
[From your example of a person who loses faith:] But after seeing the war, the famine, the starvation, the little kids dying in their mothers' arms daily, up close in person, you begin to question whether God really cares about man. Why should a little child have to die? Starve to death? What kind of God allows that?
I think everyone has questions like this once in a while. That's why we have each other in the faith, to be of ministry to us in dark times. God seems to have fully designed it that way, and it seems to me to be working pretty well. If you ever felt weak in the faith, you would know to go to your priest, right? That is as it should be. We also have the Bible that can answer many of our questions. A mature Christian also knows there are some questions we might have that are unanswerable, and we just have to have faith in God's guiding hand.
[Continuing...] It is enough to shake the faith of many people. You might deny this, but only because you haven't seen it in person and up close. You might not like this scenario, but I have seen people who have undergone this very thing. They fell away from Christianity altogether because of what they saw while trying to be Christian missionaries.
Fortunately, I have been spared from witnessing things like that first hand, and I am very sorry about the people you have seen. I am sure that this kind of thing must be common enough that there must be some sort of support system set up with counseling, etc. I would be really surprised if there was no help available to them.
Are you now going to try to tell me that this person WAS NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH??? See where this leads you, brother?
Well, if they stay away and die shaking their fists at God, then it certainly appears that way. But it also doesn't surprise me that such a thing happens to people of all Christian faiths. I just don't believe that man is strong enough to overpower God and snatch himself out of His hands. God is too strong to be overcome.
I would say that the Spirit is working in the person before Baptism, as well, as least in the adult. I work with adults preparing for Baptism, and I see His work first hand. The Catholic Church says that it is God who prepares the individual to receive Baptism. But where exactly does the Bible say that an infant CANNOT be baptised?
But of course from our POV, we cannot take a "no worries" attitude. We experience the choosing of belief and repentance.
I agree. We do not take the no worry attitude because WE may reject God in the end - He will not reject us. We do experience freedom of the will.
I think that the whole Bible was written for the benefit of all believers. When you throw out all of the passages in the article because no one can know if he is of the elect, then you render all of the passages completely useless to the average believer. They have no value.
As I said before, I agree that the Scripture is written for all believers. But Scripture has multiple meanings. We can't disregard the literal and intended sense so that you can have your spiritual meaning ONLY. Many passages are addressed to the leaders of the Church. Mat 28:20 is Jesus addressing His Apostles ONLY. Not the crowds of believers. By denying the literal, intended sense of Jesus' Words, you do injustice to the passage. We do not deny that Christ ALSO intends for us to participate in His priesthood that results from Baptism. We, TOO, are priests, prophets, and kings. We offer ourselves to God, we preach the Word to others. These are priestly functions in the OT. But none of this does away with the ministerial priesthood that continues to offer Christ's sacrifice visibly through the Mass. Nor does our priesthood resulting from baptism destroy the need for authority within the community. The ministerial priests are a clear visible sign of the visible "Christ" in the world, the man dedicated to God and His Word.
I think everyone has questions like this once in a while
My point is that an extreme experience CAN lead to a person falling away from the faith - even a missionary who believes they are strong in the faith. That is why we shouldn't take our faith for granted (or our salvation - which we HOPE for).
I just don't believe that man is strong enough to overpower God and snatch himself out of His hands. God is too strong to be overcome.
Your concept of God is different then mine. I believe God is LOVE. Love does not force. God gives us the tools to come to Him, to respond to His initiatives. But He doesn't force us to love Him. You may say "but why would someone choose not to come to God"? The answer is obvious - because God can be denied. He is denied and turned away from all the time. God desires our FAITH in Him. There is no faith when one is forced against their will. If God came down in glorious form right now, who would disbelieve? God does not overpower our nature. He grants us graces to turn to Him, but He also expects us to Repent and Believe the Gospel. Mark's Gospel clearly shows the idea that MAN is being told to reach inside and come to faith in the Lord. When Christ announces the Good News in Mark 1, nowhere is it implied that God forces someone to repent or to believe.
We don't believe God works that way. Certainly, God is active in our decision-making, but we are the one who will sin - or do good while in Christ.
Did you force your wife to love you, or did you prove your love to her and allow her the opportunity to turn to you? Even though you "knew" it was in her best interest to marry you?!
Regards