Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper; annalex; kosta50; Kolokotronis

"Everything you've written contain elements of truths which I wouldn't disagree with. But if this was the Father's will as you acknowledged in the Lord's prayer, what part of the cruxifition was God's involvement? If our Lord Jesus chose His disciples knowing ONE of them was a bad egg, wasn't He setting Judas up-putting him in a position of which He knew Judas would fail and succume to temptation? Is this how you see God working?"

I want to be very careful in how I answer this question, and right now, I have to say that I can't answer it -- or rather would rather not shoot from the hip and then have to undo something. (Something that happens to me entirely too much on FR.)

I am going to scan all of the relevant Lenten Triodion texts in the Holy Week services (and as Kolokotronis can tell you, that is quite a project) to see if this is addressed anywhere in our liturgical corpus. In general, if we believe it, we sing it at some point in the yearly cycle.

I do know that the liturgical texts that I can recall off the top of my head make no mistake about the fact that Judas is doing something that he shouldn't do, and that if he had been "paying attention," so to speak, he wouldn't have done so.

A strong subtheme of the services (or at least that is how I experience them) of Holy Week is for us to identify ourselves with Judas to a certain extent -- to see how what Judas did is so much like what we do all the time through our sins. We betray Christ through our actions and inattention. We do so because we have not joined ourselves to him and have not participated in his life and "gotten it" to the extent that we would not betray him. It is a very moving, even crushing experience.

What I expect that I will find is that the texts will be silent about this mystery -- Christ choosing a disciple who he knows will betray him. That would enter into the realm of speculation that Orthodoxy just isn't big on.

God does choose and act in creation (and Christ choosing Judas was one of those acts) -- I certainly don't want to give the impression (which I perhaps may have) that God is a passive participant in the world. Far from it. But God does not compel our actions and choices to choose or reject him.

I'll get back to you with more thoughts if I come on anything. Otherwise, I'll have to rely on the usual Orthodox "cop-out" for those things where we seem to hold mutually exclusive views simultaneously: "It's a mystery."

We try not to go beyond revelation (or ignore any of it), and we don't come up with theories to try to force incomprehensible parts of revelation into a unified and systematic whole.


3,077 posted on 02/28/2006 9:07:15 AM PST by Agrarian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3071 | View Replies ]


To: Agrarian; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; annalex; kosta50

"It is a very moving, even crushing experience."

"Crushing" is exactly the right word!


3,080 posted on 02/28/2006 10:08:59 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3077 | View Replies ]

To: Agrarian; Forest Keeper; annalex; kosta50; Kolokotronis
"A strong subtheme of the services (or at least that is how I experience them) of Holy Week is for us to identify ourselves with Judas to a certain extent -- to see how what Judas did is so much like what we do all the time through our sins. We betray Christ through our actions and inattention. "

I think it's very important to reflect on such things and I don't mean to detract from this reflection. However, it's interesting that you would identify yourself with Judas' betrayal and not Peter's denial. I would argue that we're more like Peter in his denial than we are like Judas in his betrayal.

3,081 posted on 02/28/2006 10:34:52 AM PST by HarleyD ("Man's steps are ordained by the Lord, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3077 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson