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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50; HarleyD; annalex; jo kus; Cronos
Sounds like once saved always saved, FK. What about this? These fellows (Hymenaeus and Alexander) apparently had the faith, or so +Paul would have us believe, but then rejected it:

"Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith." 1 Timothy 1:18-19

I don't see any inconsistency. "These" refers to faith and a good conscience. Many people "claim" to have "these", but in fact do not. Those who are shipwrecked have fallen away permanently, and are lost because they were never saved in the first place. Hymenaeus and Alexander must have been such, as they are both labeled as blasphemers in verse 20. Hymenaeus is also mentioned later as a blasphemer:

2 Tim. 2:17-18 : 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

It appears to me that in order to teach this error, that they could not have ever been truly saved. The footnote in my Bible suggests that they were akin with Gnostics.

2,766 posted on 02/17/2006 4:25:50 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper

"It appears to me that in order to teach this error, that they could not have ever been truly saved. The footnote in my Bible suggests that they were akin with Gnostics."

They certainly we not "saved". That's quite apparent. But then again, +Paul hadn't achieved theosis at that point either! :)

Mine says:

"What is the heresy of H and P? Perhaps a super-spiritual interpretation of the Resurrection (v. 18) as affecting only the soul and not the whole person (Greek philosophy thought bodily resurrection to be absurd); thus resurrection is thought to be already past, having occured at baptism. They use the language of baptism but in a non-Orthodox way. Let us not be naive; unchecked this sort of novel doctrine can spread through the community like cancer (v.17)."


2,769 posted on 02/17/2006 4:41:03 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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