That is a poorly worded sentence I will say. Even Calvinists believe that man must come to God. We just believe that God makes everything 100% so. No one who the Father calls ever turns away. It's just that not everyone is called by God.
Nothing there about how often or if this will continue despite any turning away.
Let's see. God gives us a new heart, a new spirit, seal His Holy Spirit in us as our guarantee, and we become a new creature. And through all of this we'll turn away???? What's the point of God doing all of this anyway??? In the end it simply states that we're the captain of our souls-not God.
Even St. Augustine believed that men must somehow cooperate with God. One who does not shows the signs that they are not of the Elect.
Yes, it was a stupid statement from me. Man's will is bound until God sets us free. After that He guides us but as sheep we can stray. But God is our Good Shepherd and will never let us stray out of His hands.
In any case, only God knows who the elect are - we don't.
So tell me, if God does everything, AND YOU DON'T COOPERATE, (for fear of being termed a Pelagian), exactly what DO you DO? YOU don't do anything, God does it, if you aren't cooperating.
God gives us a new heart, a new spirit, seal His Holy Spirit in us as our guarantee, and we become a new creature. And through all of this we'll turn away???? What's the point of God doing all of this anyway???
It would be difficult to explain this to someone - unless they knew how love works. Love is not forced upon another. And what's the point of God dying on the cross for men who will reject Him? Love.
Man's will is bound until God sets us free. After that He guides us but as sheep we can stray. But God is our Good Shepherd and will never let us stray out of His hands.
I agree, IF I am of the Elect. I have evidence that I am on the right track TODAY, but experience has led me to believe that it is possible that I can fall away. I humbly pray and hope that I do not. But I don't know what purpose God has for me - maybe I will be an example of how a "devout" Christian can still succumb to the temptations of the devil and fall away - a teaching of perseverance for other Christians? That is why we should continue to work out our salvation in fear and trembling - because GOD decides if I am of the elect, not me.
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation
Paul is presuming that those he teaches will SUCCEED in running the race (Paul says he runs so he won't be disqualified later). Paul is not saying that every single person in the community is of the elect, but that the community in general is a collection of the elect.
Jesus teaches that there are saved and unsaved people WITHIN the visible community, the Church, in His parable on the wheat and the cockle. They are often indistinguishable (as cockles are indistinguishable from wheat). Paul certainly is not saying that each member is eternally saved! This would disagree with other portions of the Scriptures, for example, when Paul tells the Corinthians about particular sins that disinherit people from the Kingdom... We just don't know the status of a particular person until the harvest.
Regards
"In any case, only God knows who the elect are - we don't.
"But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation..." 2 Thess 2:13"
Harley, if your interpretation of this passage from +Paul is correct, what's this mean from Timothy?
"This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3-4
All men, Harley, not just the "elect". Is God exercising divine self dillusion? Or do these two passages point out the bankruptcy of the Calvinist position and support The Church's understanding of God's foreknowledge but not predestination?