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To: annalex; Forest Keeper
that mariophobic translations, that abounded in modern times and Harley is using, mistranslate it as "until". It is most similar to the English "till" which also does not have the strict "before, but not after" meaning.

It should be pointed out this is John Calvin's argument for the reason that Mary remained a perpetual virgin. Although the word "until" (or "til" take your pick) is used, Rev Calvin states this does not necessarily mean that Mary HAD sex afterwards. Personally I think this strain credibility for the conjunction "until" (or "til") is a transitional statement.

Also in regards to eos the definition is “…to continue up to a particular time”. The word is also used in such places as “until a thousand years are finished” (Rev 20:5). Clearly something is going to happen after that.

I disagree with Calvin's interpretation nor do I find anything convincing me otherwise in your analysis. You would have to explain this transitional statement in conjunction with the "brothers" statement by Jesus in Matt (and I believe Luke), Paul's statement of the Lord's brothers in 1 Cor 9:5 and the beginning of the book of James.

As to the "brothers", Jesus Himself loved calling people brothers

Like this:

Eve doesn’t just listen to Satan and makes some “intellectual” choice; she is deceived by Satan, a very distinct difference. Fooled, duped. That's why she is in subjection to men. If you would like to convince me otherwise you will have to provide an answer to where Paul states this to be the case-twice!

As I stated in the above post to Forest Keeper, this isn’t “mariophobic”. It’s an attempt by the Roman Catholic Church to base a skewed doctrine on something that really isn’t there. The Mary/Eve comparison is a good case. Now if you want to say Mary was duped by the angel then that's a different issue-something I'd disagree with.

BTW-Let me know when the correct the Latin Vulgate or even the Doury-Rheims versions.

2,321 posted on 02/06/2006 12:44:27 PM PST by HarleyD ("Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24)
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To: HarleyD
I did not understand the first part of your post. Yes, the quote illustrates how non-relatives are called brothers and no, I don't think you can be convinced by the scripture no matter what I do to read it or explain it to you. Like, was Lot Abraham's brother?

Mary and Eve are symmetrical. Eve uses her senses to taste the fruit, -- the scientific method,-- and follows Satan. Mary uses logic and word of God, -- theological method, -- and follows God. Naturally, Eve is deceived and Mary is enlightened.

2,323 posted on 02/06/2006 1:13:14 PM PST by annalex
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