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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis
I think the point the Protestants are making is that He foreknew what would happen before He even created man and gave him free will -- and He proceeded to make man anyway, knowing that he shall fail.

Yes, that is exactly right. This is why I struggle so much with the idea that God loves all equally, since He knows what's going to happen and has the full power and authority to affect it.

But, that is assuming way too much about God. Let's just say that He foreknew the effects of their decisions: If they sin, they fall; if they don't sin they stay.

But you're implying that God both loves us all and that He doesn't care whether we choose Him. He has the full power and authority to affect the outcome, but you seem to be saying that He will sit on the sidelines and let us march off into our doom.

2,305 posted on 02/05/2006 4:39:29 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis
But you're implying that God both loves us all and that He doesn't care whether we choose Him

So, you are implying that a loving God should make us love Him, as much as He makes others hate Him? Tue love is never selfish, FK. What we often call love is self-love or selfishness.

God cares if we love HIm, but He doesn't compel us to love Him. Reason tells us that it is better to choose God over evil, yet evil has the power over us because evil things are something we can see and believe, which is why our Lord reminded us that blessed are those who believe and have not seen (cf Jn 20:29). Evil things we can feel instantly, physically, etc. and although we know they are perishable, while they last they seem forever rewarding.

Faith is hope and hope is of things that have yet to come, which is why it is so difficult for us, subject to sin, to live in hope. Our mind tells us we should, but our flesh says otherwise.

Once your children are grown, no matter how much you love them, you must let them go -- if you love them! It doesn't mean you don't care, it only means that love is giving freedom and not keeping captive.

As for Him creaing us with the kowledge that we will fall, you must look at it transcendentally; otherwise you have an evil God back on stage. :-)

2,309 posted on 02/05/2006 5:53:12 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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