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To: Forest Keeper
Thus, Susie is, in truth, doomed. God, who knows this, creates her anyway. Is this not a heartless God by your standards?

This goes back to your earlier question about God being "active" in our lives. God is active in our lives if we ask Him to be. I have stated this earlier: Love does not impose. God does not arm twist people into believing.

God sends His blessings. If we all followed God in His likeness, this world wold be as close to paradise as it gets. We have the potential to make such a world; but we don't have the likeness of God to accomplish it.

In the corrupt world, some accept His blessings, others turn them into vehicles of evil. But He rewards the righteous and the unrighteous, as is clearly evident.

In your all-controlling ego-maniac God who has to control every human being to His satisfaction, He is actually threatened by man's free will, for it somehow "diminishes" His omnipotence. That is a man speaking imagining to be God. You are projecting the passions and weaknesses of man onto God. This is the ultimate humanism: God must conform to human standards! His justice must conform to human justice.

God did not give us a mind so He can control it. God did not give us dominion over this world so He can take it away from us. God did not create us free so He can take that freedom away. If we are to be in His image and in His likeness -- we must have dominion over our world and freedom to choose.

But He did not abandon us. We separate from Him; not the other way around. If we choose wrong, He gives us a chance to repent. If we refuse to repent, we perish by our own foolishness.

Whether Suzie accepts God and is saved or rejects Him and goes to hell of her own foolishness and pride is not God's fault. He gave her life, mind, will, and means to make choices and to know right from wrong. If she asks Him to guide her He will. If she ignores Him he will not force her.

In your world, God created man as a cruel joke — He placed him in Paradise, gave him everything, even a woman to keep him company, then tricked them!

Our world is an independent little playground. Some of us end up where God wants us; others don't. It does not diminish God, it does not change what He planned -- which is to have mankind in Paradise. Not necessarily you, or me, but mankind. And our free will does not change the fact that He shall have mankind in paradise, with or without you or me.

His plan is already accomplished. Your decisions do not change a thing as far as God is concerned; your foolishness only affects your life and your destination. Those who end up in paradise will be with Him because they chose God, just as those who are not will be in hell because they chose to not follow God.

Now, someone here will come up with +Paul and say "but God chose +Paul and interfered in His life." Yes He did. And +Paul was not the only one. He did that so others could know Him through Paul. Not everyone has that ability. God does things that will help us come to Him, but He will not force or coerce. Forced love is no love.

2,194 posted on 01/31/2006 3:05:37 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
In your world, God created man as a cruel joke — He placed him in Paradise, gave him everything, even a woman to keep him company, then tricked them!

Our world is an independent little playground. Some of us end up where God wants us; others don't. It does not diminish God, it does not change what He planned -- which is to have mankind in Paradise. Not necessarily you, or me, but mankind. And our free will does not change the fact that He shall have mankind in paradise, with or without you or me.

Good summary of our respective anthropologies. Underlying it is the whole Protestant system of salvation (by imputation) rather than a theosis or divinization. I think God's design of sharing Himself with us is much more in line with God Himself - Love, rather than "sneaking" into heaven all dirty with a clean coat on...It is the re-introduction of fate. So many Christians escaped that concept during the time of the Roman Empire, only to find themselves subject to it again today.

Regards

2,195 posted on 01/31/2006 3:22:16 PM PST by jo kus
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To: kosta50; jo kus
Our world is an independent little playground. Some of us end up where God wants us; others don't. It does not diminish God, it does not change what He planned -- which is to have mankind in Paradise. Not necessarily you, or me, but mankind. And our free will does not change the fact that He shall have mankind in paradise, with or without you or me.

So, in your world God says, "win some, lose some". Even worse, you say that God doesn't particularly care which of us goes to heaven, He just knows that some of us will and that's good enough for Him. That sounds like a pretty weak God to me.

Regarding the rest of your post, my mouth is open and I am almost speechless. You are making the same accusations against us that you made 2000 posts ago. I truly regret that you do not appear to have learned anything new about our side's beliefs. I feel truly blessed that I have learned so much about your beliefs and those of Roman Catholics. While I maintain strong and honest disagreement with you all, I have been able to throw away many stereotypes that I have heard before about you. I am sorry that it has not gone both ways.

2,232 posted on 02/02/2006 6:14:59 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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