Fair enough, but again, if Christ ONLY covers us, it means that we still are unrighteous, dirty, wretched humans. Covering something is not the same thing as removing sin from us, is it? Thus, rid yourself of that Lutheran error. Because of Christ, we are MADE righteous in God's eyes - not because of anything we do, but by the grace of God. We will not be covered but dirty humans entering into heaven!
He is saying that if you have faith without love, then your faith isn't genuine (Godly). Paul believes that true faith has love in it. How can our "faith" lead us to Christ without love? Paul knows this and so his teaching is that a cerebral belief is not enough. Love does automatically flow from true faith because it is already there.
The point I am making that having faith alone does not save. It must be faith with love. Faith alone has no love. This was Luther's mistake, again. If you include love within your definition of faith, I think we'd agree that - however, I would say that love is not "generated" by faith, but by Christ within us. EVERYTHING is a gift from God. Thus, our faith and our love during a specific action (say, giving a glass of water to someone) is from God. The faith is necessary before the love can come forth. But both come from God.
I do not know what is going on with your "imputed righteousness". You made it up. ...
Imputed rightousness means that Christ's own righteousness is used to cover our own depraved selves. You have stated this on several occasions! Let's take the logic to its awful conclusion, shall we? IF Christ covers us up - no matter how bad we are (or good), what is the point of trying to become more holy? If we have a ticket for a nice new coat when we enter heaven (sinner's prayer, correct?), then why IS sanctification important? Tell me WHY it matters if I am a little dirty or very dirty UNDER that coat that allows me entrance into heaven???
I do not know what you mean by "need" or "evidence". ...I have no false hope, it is all in Christ
You have said that works are merely a fruit, evidence of salvation. Why do you need this evidence, when you already "know" you are saved by your sinner's prayer? What is the purpose of having fruit to prove your salvation?
A regenerated heart loves God. One who loves God obeys Him. Sanctification teaches HOW to do that. Sanctification fits perfectly into the heavenly equation.
I sense a contradiction in what is being said, or I am misunderstanding you. You believe you are of the elect, that you cannot fall, that your name cannot be blotted out. This is due to your sinner's prayer, as further evidenced by the fruits of salvation, your good works. Correct me if I am wrong so far. Now. IF Christ covers me because of the above, I am the elect, how does sanctification fit into the heavenly equation? Furthermore, what about those who DO NOT obey God, even though they have made the sinner's prayer? Does this say that the sinner's prayer does not infallibly tell us that we are saved? Ugh...
My point was that our righteousness in God's eyes is not from ourselves, we don't earn it or do good works for it. When you said "impute", I thought of "gift". That's what I think our salvation is, an unmerited gift.
We both agree that salvation is an unmerited gift. Nothing I do alone can earn it. Let's work from there. You believe that you are IMPUTED righteousness. This is a legal definition - you are CALLED righteous, although you are not. Under the covering of Christ, you still remain the same sinful depraved human being. Versus this is INFUSED righteousness. Here, Catholics (and I believe Methodists and such, to a degree) believe that God actually CHANGES US! We begin the sanctification process, thus, the need for it. We slowly become more "like" Christ by becoming more holy - none of which is from ourselves. GOD is changing us into a new creation. Thus, it is not just a legal fiction. We ARE becoming more holy - which is a necessity to enter heaven. By the faith and love infused within us by the Spirit, we become pleasing in God's eyes, preparing us to share eternal life with Him in heaven.
Regards
Yes, I fully agree. I think we really do see eye to eye on this issue. That's why I was confused when you had me adopting some idea I had never heard of before. :)
The point I am making that having faith alone does not save. It must be faith with love. Faith alone has no love. This was Luther's mistake, again. If you include love within your definition of faith, I think we'd agree that - however, I would say that love is not "generated" by faith, but by Christ within us. EVERYTHING is a gift from God.
Yes, I do include love in the definition of true faith, and I agree with what you are saying here. Boy, this Luther guy is sure getting me into a lot of trouble recently, and I don't even know his specific teachings. :)
If we have a ticket for a nice new coat when we enter heaven (sinner's prayer, correct?), then why IS sanctification important? Tell me WHY it matters if I am a little dirty or very dirty UNDER that coat that allows me entrance into heaven???
I know I've answered this, but it may have been after your post or to someone else. The short answer is that a truly regenerated heart wants to be sanctified. It is an automatic result. Although, from a truly regenerated heart, the extent of dirt under the coat (remnant sins after salvation) may determine rewards in heaven, it will not affect salvation. We do not enter into heaven as our original sinful selves with a coat hiding us. The saved are new and unblemished in God's sight for salvation purposes.
You have said that works are merely a fruit, evidence of salvation. Why do you need this evidence, when you already "know" you are saved by your sinner's prayer? What is the purpose of having fruit to prove your salvation?
Oh, OK. Well, I suppose I would say that I don't need any evidence to prove my salvation because I don't seek to prove it to others. Only God and I can know for sure if I am saved. However, I do seek to have others be able to see Christ in me, for witnessing purposes as well as my own benefit. I said that the fruit is evidence, but I don't "need" the evidence for the purpose of proving anything. It wouldn't occur to me to say to someone "look at my good deeds, therefore know that I am a Christian".
I sense a contradiction in what is being said, or I am misunderstanding you. You believe you are of the elect, that you cannot fall, that your name cannot be blotted out. This is due to your sinner's prayer, as further evidenced by the fruits of salvation, your good works. Correct me if I am wrong so far.
Yes, I believe that I am of the elect and my name cannot be blotted out. I would replace "cannot fall" with "will not fall". Much more significantly, I would say that I am not a member of the elect because of the sinner's prayer. I was always a member of the elect from the beginning of time. The sinner's prayer triggers my knowledge of it, and completes the salvation event as I experience it in time. As a new regenerated Christian, I then have the indwelling Spirit to lead me for the rest of my life. If this has indeed happened, then good works will come forth.
A logical question you might have is that if I am of the elect from the beginning, but I have to accept Christ to be saved, then if I died the day before I would have come to Christ would I still be saved because I am of the elect? Good question. My only answer can be that this cannot happen because God keeps His own. If we are truly of the elect, then after reaching the age of reason we will accept Christ and we will be saved. He ordained that it would be so, and it therefore must happen.
Furthermore, what about those who DO NOT obey God, even though they have made the sinner's prayer? Does this say that the sinner's prayer does not infallibly tell us that we are saved? Ugh...
The Bible says that those who do not obey God do not love God. And, as we discussed and agreed upon before, those who do not love God cannot have true faith. Those who do not have faith cannot be saved. Therefore, the saying of the sinner's prayer by itself isn't necessarily efficacious. It is the sincerity behind it caused by God's original intent. That's why I said only you and God can know for sure, no matter what our "profession" of faith may be.
God bless.