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To: annalex; Forest Keeper
FK: The question is: does God alter, or even make, His plan BASED on what human decisions are, or does God make His true and perfect plan from the beginning and "arrange" for it to come true? I simply vote for the latter

God does not make His plan, FK. You have to get out of that time-constrained God of yours. God's plan (to have man in paradise in communion with Him) is accomplished. God is not waiting on us.

For sure, He sees man in paradise with Him -- at the beginning and in the end at the same "time." That will not change. God has offered to save all, but apparently not all will take the offer and follow Him.

2,112 posted on 01/29/2006 3:28:22 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
God's plan (to have man in paradise in communion with Him) is accomplished. God is not waiting on us. For sure, He sees man in paradise with Him -- at the beginning and in the end at the same "time." That will not change. God has offered to save all, but apparently not all will take the offer and follow Him.

You say that God sees everything from beginning to end at the same time. OK, and freeing God from any time constraints :), some people wind up in heaven, some wind up in hell. God creates us all. God already knows what our choices will be. God creates Susie, but simultaneously in time, already knows that Susie will not chose Him. Thus, Susie is, in truth, doomed. God, who knows this, creates her anyway. Is this not a heartless God by your standards? :) Did God love Susie, knowing that she would wind up in hell, given that God had the full power and authority to prevent it? If God could harden Pharaoh's heart, then certainly He could have touched Susie's in a certain way, but He didn't. What does this mean?

2,193 posted on 01/31/2006 12:14:12 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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