Yes, exactly. That's what I meant when I said that we would disagree. :)
Me: "I actually like the idea of Christ's righteousness being thrown over me like a coat.
I understand it is an interesting commentary, but I disagree with it being anywhere in Scriptures.
Ps. 32:1 : "1 Blessed is he whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered."
Ps. 85:2 : "2 You forgave the iniquity of your people and covered all their sins. Selah "
Ps. 91:4 : "He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart."
Rom. 4:7 : "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered."
I often wonder "what would be the point of sanctification?" IF this [Christ covering our sins] was true? WHY bother trying to become holy, if we are already 'saved' and Christ throws His blanket of righteousness over us? It doesn't matter, in that sense, how I act, then, since I can't lose my salvation, and heaven is guaranteed.
While it is true that we see sanctification as a completely separate thing from salvation, it is nonetheless very important to us. We see sanctification as a first fruit of salvation, through God's grace and faith. God promises us in scripture that good works WILL flow from a truly regenerated heart. If the salvation was genuine, this must happen, and for the right reasons. It's definitional, and evidences a true salvation.
Besides being naturally incident to salvation, sanctification is also very beneficial to us for our lives here on earth. Becoming more Christ-like is good for us even in a practical sense. God commands it anyway, which is certainly a good enough reason, but we also see how much better off we will be by following Christ in our walk throughout this life. There is tremendous value in sanctification. I would SERIOUSLY counsel anyone who said "Well, I signed up for John 3:16 so I'm in. Now I can do what I want." To me, this would be prima facie evidence that there was no true salvation experience.
Me: 'It is as if God ignores our "smell".'
Again, I have a hard time with that. That is like saying God ignores sin.
All I mean is that God's forgiveness is completed through Christ. God does not hold our past against us in salvation because Christ already paid the penalty for us. "It is finished".
God continues to give us grace, and we find ourselves slowly becoming more like Him. I don't see why He would stop this process at different stages for people before they enter into heaven. It would make the whole idea of sanctification a joke. Again, if Christ covers my sins, then why worry about sin? Does it matter whether I avoid sin or not? I don't get that from Christ in the Gospels.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but who says that God stops giving grace once salvation is achieved? At that point, lifelong continuous grace is guaranteed. We spend the lifelong process of sanctification completely within God's ongoing grace.
As a saved person I "worry" about sin because I know that my Lord hates it, and hates what I do when I do it. My Spirit-led, regenerated heart tells me to avoid sin. Of course I still blow it, but I can tell you that my conscience is 100 times more acute than it was when I was lost.
Being imputed with righteousness doesn't MAKE me righteous. I STILL have unhealthy desires, they are just not CALLED sin. But there they are, just the same. Sin is sin. ... Take lust. If I have lust, my actual relationship with my wife will suffer. Just because I don't call it lust, or because God says it is no longer sin, does that take away that inner wound within me that effects my relationship? No. Sin is more than a legal accounting.
Yes, sin is sin, and I still call it sin, whether I am saved or not. Who is it that would not call this sin? In an understandable sense, being "imputed" righteousness does not make one righteous in FACT, but it does make one righteous in God's eyes and judgment. Isn't this the only chance we have if the wages of sin is death?
Anyone who does not call his own lust, "lust" is simply further sinning. As far as I am aware, God never changes the status of what is and what is not sin, so there is no change in what He thinks of this example based on the salvation status of the subject. Indeed, sin is a world more than legal accounting.
Your four Scripture verses don't say anything about CHRIST'S righteousness covering anything. The sense of those Scriptures is that God removes sin from us as the east is from the west. To cover something, as per Luther would have it, means that our sinfulness STILL REMAINS, but is covered from view of God. Scripture gives us the sense that God REMOVES sin from us - He MAKES us holy, He doesn't just assign a status to us, calling sin holiness.
This is a fundamental difference between Protestants and Catholics. Protestants generally believe that man is totally depraved, beyond healing. EVEN GOD must "pretend" we are better by giving us some sort of legal phony definition which DOES NOT tell us our actual REAL status! By supposedly being CALLED righteous and holy, and yet, we continue living in sin? To continue to have rampant thoughts of pride, envy, lust, and others? When God CALLS something RIGHTEOUS, brother, it IS! Not because it is legal fiction, but because God is CHANGING US! Righteousness is being infused into us. We begin to heal internally, really. We actually become more holy because we desire not to sin. Legal imputation does not remove the desire to sin. It is a little tag stamped on my head. I find this concept NOWHERE in the Gospels. I would be interested to know where you find Christ talking about imputed righteousness in even one verse... Meanwhile, I can quote you whole CHAPTERS telling us that WE must change - for real, not legally.
We see sanctification as a first fruit of salvation, through God's grace and faith. God promises us in scripture that good works WILL flow from a truly regenerated heart.
I responded to that idea 1000 posts ago...Love doesn't automatically flow from faith. Otherwise, why does Paul say in 1 Cor 13:2 that even the greatest of faith, to move mountains, is nothing without love? If such a great faith has NOT love, then it is quiet logical to say that Paul did NOT consider love as an automatic outpouring. And James CERTAINLY didn't believe that love was automatic from faith, either. He URGES people to bring forth their love for others - to show everyone their faith, not just give lip service (see Mat 7:21 for such lip service consequences)
And secondly, WHY is good works even necessary in the Protestant scheme, as I understand you to say? WHAT IS becoming sanctified? Are you becoming sanctified, being made holy? If so, then what is going on with imputed righteousness above? Seems like you are saying two different things. Sanctification makes us holy, but if we are covered, a once-saved Christian shouldn't really care - since no matter how "sanctified" he becomes, he still has already achieved heaven.
So where does sanctification fit into all this? Why do you need "evidence" of your salvation IF you are assuredly of the elect??? Seems a contradiction, or at least a false hope, doesn't it?
God commands it anyway, which is certainly a good enough reason, but we also see how much better off we will be by following Christ in our walk throughout this life
And what happens to a person who is disobedient to God's commands? From what you seem to be saying, sanctification doesn't fit into the heavenly equation whatsoever. It appears to be something given to make our lives better here on earth ONLY. Yes?
All I mean is that God's forgiveness is completed through Christ. God does not hold our past against us in salvation because Christ already paid the penalty for us. "It is finished".
Yes. I would add that we must apply Christ's work to our own subjective redemption - some people do not and will not be saved. Christ died potentially for all men, but all men will not take advantage of Christ's work.
At that point, lifelong continuous grace is guaranteed. We spend the lifelong process of sanctification completely within God's ongoing grace.
To serve what purpose? If we are already infallibly saved and guaranteed heaven and a big coat awaits us before we walk into heaven, what difference does it make how dirty we are, as long as we have an invitation? Sanctification serves no purpose in this scenario, since any such process of becoming holy is covered over anyways...If we all enter heaven stinking but covered, and apparently, God doesn't mind, what difference does it make if one is dirtier underneath his coat of Christ's righteousness?
In an understandable sense, being "imputed" righteousness does not make one righteous in FACT, but it does make one righteous in God's eyes and judgment.
You can't possibly mean that! We aren't righteous in fact but we are in God's eyes? Is God like Isaac, whom Rebekah covered up Jacob with a skin to hide who Jacob really was? Is this the Protestant idea of God? NOTHING unclean will enter heaven! NOTHING. Brother, we must become righteous, more so than the scribes and Pharisees, said God Himself. With God, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. Remember that. God works within me the will and means to be pleasing to Him. There is no phony smoke and mirrors going on.
God CHANGES me. There is nothing that I will bring to God upon judgment that He did not give me. And shouldn't it be so? God is LOVE. I have said it over and over and I will continue. Love shares of itself. God is mightily pleased to share His gifts so that we might BECOME more like Him. I urge you to read Mat 5-7. See how Christ expects us to become. Understand that YOU must pray like that, give alms like that, fast like that. Not for human approval (Gal 1:10) but for God and love of Him. Because of the Spirit within us, we can become more righteous. Isn't Christ clear that WE must move beyond how the Pharisees were acting? God doesn't desire lip service (Lord, Lord - Mat 7:21), God desires that we do His will. Christ says NOTHING about imputed righteousness. I find it odd that you would have Paul teaching a different Gospel than Jesus.
Regards