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To: Kolokotronis; annalex; Cronos; jo kus; Forest Keeper
During the time between the Particular and the General Judgment, which is called the Intermediate State, the souls of men have foretaste of their blessing or punishment."

This, however, does not explain our prayers for the dead, Kolo. The Orthodox, in addition to what is the GOARCH summary, also believe that the souls, separated from their bodies, are in an unnatural state. We were created body and soul (in that order) and our state in the spirit deprived of a body is not natural.

Such state is, therefore, uneasy and even possibly torturous, because the souls really cannot "do" anything. They can't repent after physical death, and our supplications are aimed at easing their "torment" or "longing" which they would experience even if they are destined for eternal blessing after the Final or Dread Judgment.

This is really a round-about-way of saing pretty much what the Latins are saying, IMHO. The "discomfort" also comes from the fact that all our sins which we have not repeneted of will be made visible as we stand before God and Saints in our sinful nakedness. Shame, perhaps, better describes this "discomfort" and prayers provide spiritual clothing, spiritual "warmth" and spiritual comfort.

The Otherodox, of course, are less legalistic in their terms, but the message is the same, as far as I can see.

1,993 posted on 01/25/2006 4:35:02 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

"The Otherodox...." Would that be us Greeks? :)

Its all pretty much speculation, Kosta. In any event, as you never tire of reminding us, our prayers for the dead are for "mercy".


1,994 posted on 01/25/2006 4:42:55 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; annalex
This is really a round-about-way of saing pretty much what the Latins are saying, IMHO. The "discomfort" also comes from the fact that all our sins which we have not repeneted of will be made visible as we stand before God and Saints in our sinful nakedness. Shame, perhaps, better describes this "discomfort" and prayers provide spiritual clothing, spiritual "warmth" and spiritual comfort.

If we view Purgatory as that opportunity to purge our attachments to things other than God, I think we would all agree on this in principle. Who would posit that man will enter union with the Father for eternity with our wounded will when we die? Very few of us will have purged away our pride, our vanity, our sloth, or whatever sinful tendency that we have, our concupiscence of the will. Thus, I believe a third place is necessary. What remains, from what I understand, is "do the purged souls go into union with God in heaven BEFORE the Final Judgment"? I would say yes, if we look to the Book of Revelation and see that John sees a great number of people in heaven offering eternal worship to the Father BEFORE this Final Judgment at the end of the Book. I think careful study by the Eastern Orthodox on this subject will likely find that we agree on much of what has been called Dogma by the Western Catholic Church.

And as Kosta mentions, there is an ancient practice of praying TO saints to intercede - not just to beg mercy for their souls. This is especially true of the cult of the martyrs - it is pretty much unanimous that they rest in peace with God.

I am not aware of what Annalex discusses regarding the "arguing" between Satan and God for the souls. Is this one school of speculative thought among many, or is this rather limited in belief through the Church? I don't sense that as part of the faith, as what would be the point of being judged upon our death if then Satan and God would "argue" over the soul?

Brother in Christ

1,998 posted on 01/25/2006 5:24:57 PM PST by jo kus
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; Cronos; jo kus; Forest Keeper
Such state [between Particular and Final judgements] is, therefore, uneasy and even possibly torturous, because the souls really cannot "do" anything

I don't understand where the Communion of Saints fits into this.

2,004 posted on 01/25/2006 5:53:03 PM PST by annalex
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