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To: HarleyD; Cronos; Forest Keeper; jo kus; annalex
Everything was good BEFORE the fall. After the fall man was cursed. Why do you think they call it "the fall"

Yes, but why would he be cursed in your theology when everything we do has been preordained by God?

If there is no free will, then Adam could not have chosen to sin but was compelled to sin by none other than God Himself!

If he was compelled to sin and had no choice in it, he is "guilty" of what? Blind obedience to God? Obviously not! Adam's guilt is in wanton disobedience, a conscious and willing resistance to God's will. Thus, it is clear that man CAN and does resist God's will.

But, in your world, God compels man to disobey Him and then punishes him! In the real world, man resists God's will because he is a fallen creature who misused his freedom, and who bears responsibility for it because he possesses the freedom to choose between God and no-God. Your world is a world of God the puppet master, where humans are simply dopes on ropes, where sin is preordained, and where people who are compelled to sin by God are then punished for it!

The saddest thing in your world, Harley, is that man cannot even ask for forgiveness unless God orders him to "repent." In your world, Christ came to redeem what? Man from God-induced sin? And in order to redeem the fallen humanity, God directs man to kill Christ, so that Christ can die for our God-compelled sins!

Instead of dealing with this troublesome theology of yours, you quote disjointed Bible verses. That's pathetic!

1,823 posted on 01/21/2006 5:39:53 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; HarleyD
why would he be cursed in your [HarleyD] theology

Harley is not familiar with the relevant book of the scripture:

14 And the Lord God said to the serpent: Because thou hast done this thing, thou art cursed among all cattle, and beasts of the earth: upon thy breast shalt thou go, and earth shalt thou eat all the days of thy life. 15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

16 To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband's power, and he shall have dominion over thee. 17 And to Adam he said: Because thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat, cursed is the earth in thy work; with labour and toil shalt thou eat thereof all the days of thy life. 18 Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herbs of the earth. 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth, out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return.

(Genesis 3)

There is a curse on the Serpent, but no curse on mankind itself. Moreover, Eve's seed (or Eve herself in traditional translations like the one above) is foretold to prevail over the Serpent.

1,827 posted on 01/21/2006 1:26:18 PM PST by annalex
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To: kosta50
why would he be cursed in your theology when everything we do has been preordained by God? If there is no free will, then Adam could not have chosen to sin but was compelled to sin by none other than God Himself!

If he was compelled to sin and had no choice in it, he is "guilty" of what?

Yes, indeed...

Regards

1,832 posted on 01/21/2006 2:09:35 PM PST by jo kus
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