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To: annalex
No, unfortunately, the Protestants are not, as a community of faith, part of the Church, -- if they were, Luther's work to separate himself from the Church would have been in vain. Individual Protestants are, of course, mystically, and insofar as they are not in rebellion of mind, members of the catholic Church on which they rely for their salvation.

The children of the reformation will chose to politely refuse any union with Rome

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Church

ekklesia

1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
b) the assembly of the Israelites
c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
d) in a Christian sense
1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
2) a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
3) those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
4) the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
5) the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven

No mention of Rome or a Pope . An assembly of believers.

But the Revelation subsists in the two apostolic Churches, Catholic and Orthodox, and they together are source of the interpretation of the Scripture. The insights individual Protestant communities may have into the Scripture are private interpretations.

The "inclusion of the EO in your attempt to pacify and ingratiate yourself to our EO posters is noted, but they are no so easily deceived , they do not see themselves as subject to the Pope or Rome's teachings either . They are part of the church and not the church at Rome . I know you consider the scholars and teaching of our Churches as " private interpretation" and we let that pass as an expected insult from those that do not know any better, and repeat what they are told without question .

1,770 posted on 01/19/2006 6:04:32 PM PST by RnMomof7 ("Sola Scriptura,Sola Christus,Sola Gratia,Sola Fide,Soli Deo Gloria)
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To: RnMomof7

Regarding the ecclesiological status of reformed communities, you cite a dictionary. That proves that these communities can be called "church" in accordance with the English language. Linguistically, this is true. But it is wrong theology.

Christ built His Church on the foundation of Peter (Matthew 16:18) and through His apostles, who He sent to the world in His stead (John 20:21). He predicted that the church will be one despite temporal divisions (John 17:11-23; 1 Corinthians 12:12). He predicted that the apostles will be taught proper doctrine by the Holy Ghost (John 14:26). He also predicted that the Church as a whole is perfect and glorious (John 17 22-23). His apostle St. Paul taught that all be admitted to the Church (1 Timothy 2:4). His other apostle and the first pope St. Peter decreed that his office will be held by his successors in perpetuity (2 Peter 1:15). Accordingly, the marks of the Church are one, holy, catholic and apostolic.

The Protestant communities of faith variously miss at least one of these marks. The organizatonal union with Rome, incidentally, is not among the marks. Till relatively recently, the Church of England was considered a part of the true visible Church, because it maintained the apostolic succession, and despite its opposition to Rome. Since then, due to sever doctrinal drift, they lost their apostolicity, and today, with homosexual bishops they are firmly along the road to lose their holiness.

Not so with the Eastern Orthodox. Too little separates us doctrinally to deny that we have oneness of teaching. Their liturgical and monastic tradition ensures their holiness; their ecclesiology is all-inclusive and hence catholic; they have the same apostolic succession. For these reasons the Catholic Church teaches that the Orthodox are a valid church in the theological sense.

While points of disagreement exist, and many Orthodox vigorously resist all ecumenist entreaties, I am not aware of any disagreement regarding the interpretation of scripture. Personally, I rely on both Catholic and Orthodox exegesis of the scripture interchangeably.


1,796 posted on 01/20/2006 11:30:07 AM PST by annalex
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