Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: RnMomof7
OK, I think we might be on the verge of writing short pamplets here! I will try to narrow this down to one subject. If you want to discuss issues that I omit, I ask you to refer them to a second post. Thanks.

Gods work in us is a mark of our faith and salvation. But even the heathen does "good works" so if one looks to his works as PROOF of his salvation he might be very surprised on judgment day when Christ says "I never knew you"

Yes, works are a mark of Christ's presence. However, Christ clearly points out that there is a difference between works as done externally (for whatever selfish motives) and works done out of internal love of God.

"Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets" (Mat 6:1-2)

This is key in the Gospels:

"That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Mat 5:20).

Note this is preceded by the Beatitudes, which reward particular behavior with Heaven, then followed by how we can EXCEED the commands of the Law by loving our neighbor -

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery, But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matt 5:27-28).

We are to EXCEED the written code - to LOVE with our hearts!

Consider the Rich Young Man, Matt 19:16b-21:

"what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" So He said to him,....but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, "'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?" Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions."

The parallel in Mark 10:21 says "Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him (not ridiculed him), and said to him, "One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven..."

Here, Jesus is pointing out another requirement to enter life - the obedience of the commandments. The obedience to the Law as representing the desire of one's heart towards God and neighbor IS THE ISSUE, not faith. The question Jesus presents is "have you combined your faith and works sufficiently"?

A similar discussion of the Law is found in Mark 12:28-34. A scribe approaches Jesus (not trying to trap Him, like the other Pharisees). What does Jesus tell the scribe?

"Which is the first commandment of all? (asked the scribe. After Jesus response to love God and others, the scribe says...) Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love [his] neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.

Note, in either case, Jesus did not condemn the young man or the scribe who obeyed the commandments. They were unlike the hypocritical Pharisees that Jesus condemns in Matthew 5-7.

Jesus throughout the Gospels tells us that our actions of love are the basis of our judgment to life or eternal damnation...He is looking for an obedience to God that exceeds the hypocritical Pharisees who EXTERNALLY obey the Commandments for their own selfish reasons - for human praise. God is looking for a personal striving of one trying to please the Lord with all of his actions and thoughts. THIS man is righteous, in God's eyes. As Paul says:

"he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." Romans 2:29

James continues this idea - we MUST add works of love to our faith...

"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead" James 2:14-16

Does this differ at all from Christ's teachings, or this one from Paul: "though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing" 1 Cor 13:2

We have already discussed WHERE these works come from - God. He is the source of both our faith and our love. But faith is not a conveyor belt that automatically brings love. Paul's last verse points that out. Jesus points that out. James points that out. We CAN have fear of God, faith in Him, while SIMULTANEOUSLY disregarding our neighbor! Does anyone in the Scriptures tell us that this faith will save? NO! Unless we love from the heart, obeying God's commandment to love, all the faith in the world makes me nothing

Thus, faith alone DOES NOT save.

Regards

1,746 posted on 01/19/2006 4:56:57 AM PST by jo kus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1730 | View Replies ]


To: jo kus
The problem of seeing works as saving is that you then see Muslims as capable of being saved.

Could you define grace and mercy for me?

1,756 posted on 01/19/2006 11:08:30 AM PST by RnMomof7 ("Sola Scriptura,Sola Christus,Sola Gratia,Sola Fide,Soli Deo Gloria)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1746 | View Replies ]

To: jo kus
Yes, works are a mark of Christ's presence. However, Christ clearly points out that there is a difference between works as done externally (for whatever selfish motives) and works done out of internal love of God
"Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets" (Mat 6:1-2)

Just an observation observations, this is about rewards not salvation. It is consistent with what I told you earlier. That God is to get the glory for ALL our deeds not us. If we get the glory there is no eternal reward for that .

Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Mat 10:41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

You want to interpret "reward" as salvation, but that is no where taught in scripture. Salvation is called salvation. If one does not think it is important to point to the "source" of his works, any reward is lost.

"That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Mat 5:20).

Ahhh exactly, we can never enter heaven based on our own righteousness, (our works, law keeping, church attendance etc) we enter only covered in the righteousness of Christ.

Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

No the rich young man did not know Jesus was the Messiah.

First you need to understand that Jesus was viewed as a Rabbi ( a teacher)

In Judaism men that aspired to be rabbis found one to follow around and to be taught by him. When they had done that for a time , they themselves become Rabbis .

This young man was looking for a Rabbi to study under , not a Savior.

Note he did not see Jesus as his Savior from the beginning, he was looking to save himself .

Mar 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

Notice here that the emphasis is not on grace or mercy but what shall I do . He was not looking to God or the Messiah for salvation

The rich ruler wanted to know what he might need to do to be sure that he had not missed anything in his righteousness. Was there something that might prevent him from attaining everlasting life - life with God? Jesus struck a "fatal blow "to his theology and confidence. His did not understand righteousness .

Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.

Jesus , who knows all things knows that this young man does NOT know who he is.

The young man called him good, that was a word reserved for God in Jewish culture.There are no parallels exist in Jewish literature for calling someone a "good teacher."

Jesus did not correct him when he called him good and say "no I am not good" instead He actually told him that He was God by not denying that he was good.

The young man does not respond to Jesus you are God.

Even when Jesus does not deny He is good (meaning He is God) the young man still does not see Jesus is Messiah Jesus , who knows all things knows that this young man does NOT know who he is.

Jesus got to the heart of the matter and revealed a corrupted understanding of righteousness. He categorically stated that only God is good. To think of a human in the same terms as God is a lack of understanding of the holiness of God and the sinfulness of men . His standard was inadequate. IT WAS BASED ON HUMAN RIGHTEOUSNESS RATHER THAN GOD’S.

Even when Jesus does not deny He is good (meaning He is God) the young man still does not see Jesus is Messiah

Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Notice here that Jesus goes first to the part of the law that refers to men . In doing so shows this young mans self righteousness, as opposed to the righteousness of God.

He most likely did work at keeping the law. Jesus did not point out to him that he had failed at any one point of it .

Instead Jesus pointed out a sin that was not seen in the world of the Pharisees, the desire for greed and power and yes, making his possessions above his relationship to God or his eternal life . They were false gods tis true, but if he had known that Jesus was God and not just a teacher he may have given them up.

Mar 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

Jesus does not question the truth of this. This was obviously a man that did keep the commandments. Except Jesus saw something that perhaps the young man had never even considered, there is more to righteousness than keeping the law

Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Jesus told the young man he lacked something in spite of his law keeping . What he lacked was faith . He did not understand that Jesus was the Messiah, he was not even looking for a Messiah. He was looking for a teacher , a rabbi to study under , so that one day he too could be a rabbi.He was looking to his own righteousness to save him. (Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;)

Jesus told him the cost of coming was dying to himself (pick up your cross).

This was about self righteousness and position and poser to this man , not seeking a Messiah

Mar 10:22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

He trusted in his money more than Christ. Does that indicate any spiritual vision at all?
The others have sold all they had to follow Him. The mans faith was in himself and his possessions, and his own righteousnes

Mar 10:23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

Have no doubt, he was not seeking a Savior in that encounter. He did not know who Jesus was, and even when Jesus revealed himself to the man , he was still unable to come in faith .

Jesus did not come for the righteous,He came for sinners. So why would he demand law keeping here?

The point of this story is that no matter how hard men work at law keeping we can not do it .No matter how righteous we try to make ourselves , God can see the heart and sin that we do not see.
True righteousness is in Christ.

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead" James 2:14-16

James is speaking to saved men on how the world will see them. It is about being justified in the eyes of men

If one believes he is saved or damned by his works , then one comforts oneself with the idea that "I am not as bad as my neighbor"

It allows a man to think men can be saved on the basis of that work and not need Christ as their savior( ie. Muslims)

The Bible tells us "ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." That is the inspired word of God . It does not say that some have fallen short and some are "close"

Now I quote James to you

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

So the thief is also a murder in Gods eyes.

No where does Jesus say or imply that one is saved by works. The book of James was written to a converted church , not heathens seeking salvation . It tells them how their conversion is seen by the unsaved world . It is not about becoming saved or being saved. It is about the fruit of your salvation.

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Who is James SHOWING his "faith" to ? God work in us is how MEN see our faith.

This is an amplification of the teaching of Jesus that we know a tree by the fruit it bears. It is how we know the saved from the unsaved. It does not declare that the man has faith ...but that he SAYS he has faith.

This addresses a hollow profession of faith , not a saving one . Can a hollow profession save him? NO, any more than works can save.This scripture says to the church that this faith is non existent , it is dead.

The bible is clear that it is God that gives the faith and it is God that ordains the works of the saved

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Hbr 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Phl 2:13both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Isa 57:12 I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise. Gal 3:19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law . Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

1,762 posted on 01/19/2006 1:58:35 PM PST by RnMomof7 ("Sola Scriptura,Sola Christus,Sola Gratia,Sola Fide,Soli Deo Gloria)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1746 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson