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To: Bohemund
There were few inaccuracies. I noticed you changed the wording around a bit to provide a more positive spin but it is still the same thing.

Orthodox/Catholic:

Reformed:
1,439 posted on 01/13/2006 6:01:47 PM PST by HarleyD ("No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him..." John 6:44)
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To: HarleyD
You are really good at formatting clearly. I apologize for my poor efforts.

I don't mean to distort the teachings of either the Orthodox/Catholic camps or the Reformed camp. Thank you for your corrections.

Orthodox/Catholic:

On 1), the assurance of salvation, I think that we pretty much agree. I also hope that you recognize that recognition of another's sanctity is different from assuming that one is Heaven-bound.

On 2), the need to live a holy life, I think we're on the same page.

On 3), the intercession of the saints, you initial post implied that Catholics and Orthodox do not pray to God. I'm glad you recognize that this is not the case.

On 4), the gift of the Eucharist, you are correct that it "renews the life of grace received at Baptism." It also "increases the communicant's union with the Lord, forgives his venial sins, and preserves him from grave sins. Since receiving this sacrament strengthens the bonds of charity between the communicant and Christ, it also reinforces the unity of the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ."

On 5), God's plan, Catholics believe that "To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of "predestination", he includes in it each person's free response to his grace." I think this is different from your statement that there is "No plan of God for one's life."

Reformed:

On 1), assurance of salvation, I could have sworn that it was Reformed teaching that there are those who God hates. I may be mistaken. Maybe there are just those who God loves, but not enough to save.

On 2), the salvation of the elect, I thought for a moment that you were saying that you were sure you were a member of the elect. Sorry.

On 3), prayer to God, we agree.

On 4), rebirth and sealing with the Holy Spirit, does this happen for everybody or just the elect?

On 5), God's perfect plan for one's life to give them a future and a hope, are you saing that every one of us has a perfect plan for our life to give them future and a hope, even the unelect who are damned?

1,445 posted on 01/13/2006 6:36:29 PM PST by Bohemund
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To: HarleyD; Bohemund

Orthodox/Catholic:

4) You are both right. The Eucharist transmits saving grace, and it is a commandment of Christ.

5) Harley is flat wrong. God's plan for each one depends on one's actions, but God is involved in everyone's life at all times. Not a sparrow falls on the ground without His knowledge.

Reformed:

1) Your disagreement is one of those jelly-on-the-wall things about Reformed theology. I surely have seen statements that God hates the reprobate made by the Calvinists. I agree that the statement cannot be ascribed to to all Protestants, as not all are Calvinists.

2-5) Harley cannot mean literally that only Harley is saved, sealed with the Holy spirit, etc. If Harley disagrees with Bohemund, he needs to point out where in precise rather than idiomatic language.


1,672 posted on 01/16/2006 1:04:46 PM PST by annalex
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