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To: annalex
there were at least 120 people on whom the Holy Spirit descended at Pentecost not just the Apostles and they all manifested the presence of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was not there when this occurred, He had ascended 10 days before. The Apostles received the Holy Spirit just like the rest of those who had waited in the upper room. It was the fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel and Jesus promise that the Comforter would come on all believers.

The quote from John to Nicodemus concerning "born of water" was a reference to the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit not baptismal regeneration which would have been a foreign concept to Nicodemus. The ordinance of baptism that Jesus instituted after His resurrection would have no meaning here since Jesus had not died, been buried and resurrected and He had not disclosed His death at this time. The word for "washing" of regeneration in Titus 3:5 is lutron, the same as used in Ephesians 5:26 "washing" of water by the Word. Lutron is never used for baptism. Baptizo is the Greek for baptism. Lutron, in those verses and "born of water", refers to the cleansing of sin by the Holy Spirit in regeneration by the Word of God, not baptism.
1,432 posted on 01/13/2006 5:36:49 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan

There is nothing in what you write about the Pentecost that contradicts that the Holy Spirit descended on a select group of people, who, lead by St. Peter, converted and baptized others.

May be your pastor taught you to read "born of water and the Holy Ghost" and mentally omit "water", but I read what is written. Water refers to baptism. Now, regarding the timing of this, Jesus speaks to Nicodemus in the future tense of entering the Kingdom of God, which places the baptism reference in the same time frame as salvation, following Christ's resurrection.


1,449 posted on 01/13/2006 6:49:47 PM PST by annalex
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