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To: Dionysiusdecordealcis; zeeba neighba

Good, glad that's resolved. Now if you will look up the definition of "gift" you will find it is the intention of the giver that determines whether it is a gift or not, not the intention of the "givee".


1,352 posted on 01/13/2006 12:44:04 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan

and if a gift from the King of Kings was given, only an ungrateful fool would not accept it.


1,354 posted on 01/13/2006 12:46:15 PM PST by zeeba neighba
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To: blue-duncan

It is true that without the giver intending a gift it would not be a gift. The intention of the giver is necessary but not sufficient cause of it being a gift. Likewise, another necessary (not optional) but not sufficient cause of something being a gift is it's acceptance by the giftee. Until it is accepted the gift is not a gift in the full sense.

A gift refused is a gift-manque, an attempted gift, a partially gifted gift, an ungifted gift, a rejected gift, hence ultimately a non-gift.

A gift forced on a person against his will lacks the necessary intent that you yourself admit is required. A God who plans on forcing something on us is not intending a gift but intending to tyrannize us. A rapist is not offering his body as a gift to his victim but forcing it on her. If she were willing to receive his body, it would not be rape. If he knows her to be unwilling and forces himself on her, he does not intend to gift her with his body.

The problem with your use of dictionary definitions in this and other matters is that dictionaries do not define words in all their philosophical and theological implications. But my exposition of the meaning of gift is consonant even with your dictionary definition. It just expands it. I agree that intention is necessary but I simply define gift-intention as precluding forcing an unwanted thing on someone against her will. The intention of someone who forces something on someone is not the gift-intention that the dictionary definition takes for granted.

Nice try. Do you see the problem with gotcha games? Just just glom onto a definition and don't stop to think through what it presupposes, what its implications are.


1,358 posted on 01/13/2006 12:58:10 PM PST by Dionysiusdecordealcis
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To: blue-duncan
Now if you will look up the definition of "gift" you will find it is the intention of the giver that determines whether it is a gift or not, not the intention of the "givee".

Amen. I don't recall many Scripture verses talking about our "acceptance" of the gift.

Instead, time and again we're told we "receive" the gift of God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

I just don't understand their reluctance to see that this reality makes the gift God gave them so much more precious and profound because it is totally undeserved, yet totally free.

Or else what is mercy?

1,359 posted on 01/13/2006 1:00:20 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (an ambassador in bonds)
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