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When you show me where any defender of free will on this thread called those who study the Word diligently and rely on Christ heretics, I'll quote you their verses. But none of us ever said that and for you to imply that we claim that is insulting and dishonest.

The insult was on the part of those who called fellow FR Christians "heretics," and the dishonesty may be yours, but perhaps you just missed the post since you were not pinged.

The remarks were made yesterday by Kolokotronis in post #1053:

"I have sat this one out for a couple of days now, not only because I have been busy but because so much of this thread seems to be contesting with those whom our forefathers in The Faith would, without qualm, call heretics. You all remember the words of +John Chrysostomos in his Homily VI on Titus:..."

yada

Nice try, gotcha gal.

But Kolokotronis was referring not to your diligent study of the Bible or trust in Christ but to your interpretive conclusions drawn from your study. We do not call you heretics because you study the Bible but we call you heretics, if we do, because of the conclusions you draw from the Bible. Zeeba was trying to pass himself off as a li'l old just-studying-my-Bible-so-why-you-guys-hittn'-me-all-the-time victim.

Stand up and stand behind your interpretations, defend them as you wish, but don't give me that "I'm just a poor old Bible-studying fella" business.

And, as you will note, I don't even call Zeeba a heretic for his conclusions because I don't think he knows what he's doing enough to be culpable. Calvin, yes, I'll call him a heretic. And the Catholic-derived Jansenius as well. But Harley and Zeeba and you, you're just invincibly ignorant, at least, so I hope. I don't get to make the final judgment call on these matters. You've had plenty of warning, so you're playing with fire if you continue to refuse honestly to engage alternative conclusions but it's up to you. After all, you are free to choose what you believe and what you reject.

Thank-you for the ping.

Alex is a much more gentle soul than I am when dealing with the heterodox. Lest there be any doubt about the matter, to my eyes you "preach a new gospel" and I therefore share the opinion of my forefathers going back at least 1800, maybe 2000 years that you Calvinists, like all teachers of a "new gospel", are heretics. Now of course my friend Harley has taught me that in his eyes I am an adherent of the heresy of Semi-Pelagianism, on account of which, both he and I can assure you, I took no offense. I recently indicated to Forest Keeper that he might be called a heretic, but that I doubted that he would care very much if the Orthodox or the Catholics called him that. I was right.

You seem to think that because you are a Christian that that somehow insulates you from heresy or being called a heretic. Where did you get such an idea? The last thing I would have expected from a Calvinist is religious relativism. Dear lady, the overwhelming majority of heretics are or were Christians. Surely one such as yourself knows that. Pagans are not heretics. Jews are not heretics. Mohammadens may be, but that's another story.

Its really quite simple. 600 years ago some people got mad at Rome, broke with it and started their own ecclesial groups. They did away with most of the theology and praxis of the The Church, both Latin and Orthodox, claiming they found a mandate to do so in the Scriptures by using a power of scriptural interpretation which had apparently laid dormant for the first 1500 years of the life of The Church. That "every man a pope" idea has lead to the present what, 3000 or so Protestant sects. From the point of view of The Church, the Protestants have denied what The Church always and everywhere believed and preach, as I said, a "new gospel". That makes you heretics in the eyes of The Church and of its children.

I simply can't understand why you think that a Catholic or an Orthodox, or even a Lutheran for that matter, calling you a heretic is some sort of intended insult. Coming from us its simply a matter of stating a fact. Were you a faithful Catholic and I were to call you a heretic, that might well be and be taken as an insult. The opposite of course is also true.

Anyway, dear lady, I'll let you in on a secret. I don't think you were insulted at all. I think you just wanted to take a shot at D and that was the best you could come up with.