Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Dionysiusdecordealcis
If you knew anything about Church history, Harley, you'd know that Evangelical C of E's come from the Calvinist side of the ledger.

I'm not saying that you can't mount an argument for Augustine's having denied free will.
1,169 posted on 01/12/2006 12:11:33 PM PST by HarleyD ("No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him..." John 6:44)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1163 | View Replies ]


To: HarleyD

Typical sidestep, again, Harley. You simply evade my point.

I know very well that McGrath is not your brand of Calvinist. But you did not state that only non-Arminian Calvinists meet your scrutiny. You dismissed his work as irrelevant because he's C of E. (Typical cheap shot--when you have no case you try an ad hominem, accuse someone of bias.) You didn't say he was no good because he's an Arminian. He's a C of E evangelical Protestant. He's not a Catholic. To you anyone whose not a puppet-God Calvinist is wrong. Fine--your pre-judice is showing.

And spare me the claim that you believe in free will but the free will you believe in is unfree. We believe the will (orientation, voluntas) is bound to sin but consent/choice (arbitrium) remains free. Choice/consent needs a freed up will (voluntas) in order to choose God but, having had its companion, formerly bound, will (voluntas) freed, choice/arbitrium/consent acts freely. What you call "free will" is a phantom, given the way you explain the functioning of choice and the meaning of "boundness." It boils down to whether we can refuse God and again and again you've said no. So YOU DO NOT IN FACT BELIEVE IN FREE WILL and you insult my intelligence by trying this dodge on me. The "free will" you believe in, in fact, is not free ever to choose against God and when it chooses God you believe that in fact God moves it like a puppeteer moves the strings on a marionette. So your lip service to free will is just that: mere words, denied by the rest of your doctrine.

We've been round and round on this. Keep up the sidestep dance, my friend.

All the essential points have been made many times over; you have no response to a single substantive argument I or other Catholic and Orthodox posters have made. You constantly shadowbox with straw men.

But why do I even try to point this out? You seem incapable even of understanding what people write, much less what yourself write, having repeatedly refuted yourself in your own questions and statements.

It's been fun Harley.


1,177 posted on 01/12/2006 12:46:53 PM PST by Dionysiusdecordealcis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1169 | View Replies ]

To: HarleyD
There you go. Arminianism. A true Reformed church would not make such a statement.

Harley, I believe that statement is entirely consistent with classical Reformed Calvinism.

1,187 posted on 01/12/2006 1:12:09 PM PST by P-Marlowe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1169 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson