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To: jo kus
Both. How can we say we love the King if we don't obey His commands? If we are to love God with our whole being, what sort of love is it if we just talk? What sort of faith is that? All faith, even to move mountains, is WORTHLESS if it does not have love (1 Cor 13:2). Your faith is not saving faith if it doesn't possess love. But without faith, our good deeds are ALSO not of merit. Thus, we must have both to achieve heaven.

If we believe that works are NECESSARY for salvation then they are not works for God they are self serving, seeking to save ourselves in eternity. They are for our eternal good not Gods glory.

Last I looked love is a FRUIT of the Holy Spirit, so it is something the unsaved can not have . They may have a carnal human substitute, but it is not divine love indwelling them. So their work come from self love, carnal self seeking love not ordained by God for HIS glory .

Jesus taught this pretty clearly

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Here are men that believe their good works , done in the name of the Lord, works will save them. But Jesus called those very works SIN, He then consigned them to hell. He tells them not that they were once saved and lost their salvation, He tells them "I NEVER knew you". So all the time these men were working it was self serving, driven by carnal love or ego, not coming from the ordination of God or the work of the Holy Spirit in them. That is why Christ called it sin, when men may have applauded it.

Think of the analogy of good works being called "fruit". The tree does not give like to the fruit. The only fruit that is not rotten is that fruit that is attached to the life giving tree.

It may not choose what fruit it will be, it must be what the tree tells it to be.

1,165 posted on 01/12/2006 11:42:50 AM PST by RnMomof7 ("Sola Scriptura,Sola Christus,Sola Gratia,Sola Fide,Soli Deo Gloria)
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To: RnMomof7
If we believe that works are NECESSARY for salvation then they are not works for God they are self serving, seeking to save ourselves in eternity. They are for our eternal good not Gods glory.

We believe that love is necessary, not works of the law. You are confusing the two. Actions of love are necessary for salvation. A work is something we do for pay, love is something we do for the other, not for ourselves. Without love, our faith is not "saving" faith. The exact same action can be considered either a "work" or a "good deed of love". It depends on the inner disposition of the person. Doesn't Jesus make that clear enough? It is our inner self that matters.

Last I looked love is a FRUIT of the Holy Spirit, so it is something the unsaved can not have . They may have a carnal human substitute, but it is not divine love indwelling them. So their work come from self love, carnal self seeking love not ordained by God for HIS glory .

Everything we do while abiding in Christ is a fruit of the Spirit. Whether it is faith, repentance, or love. I agree with you.

Here are men that believe their good works , done in the name of the Lord, works will save them

Perhaps the definitions are resulting in us talking past each other. Good deeds with loving intentions are NECESSARY for salvation. Faith alone doesn't save. Works cannot save because they do not have proper inner disposition. As long as we abide in Christ, our actions are meritorious.

Regards

1,196 posted on 01/12/2006 3:00:24 PM PST by jo kus
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