You mean you don't want to believe?
Posted on 01/01/2006 4:48:03 PM PST by HarleyD
My bishop told me that's what I saw and I have to believe him.
You mean you don't want to believe?
What's want got to do with it after the bishop speaks, infidel!
Very well put, Kosta. It seems here, in a very small way, we have made progress on the commission given to us from +Batholomeus and +JPII to talk to each other and in brotherly love come to understand each other. I believe that the hierarchs have been doing that for sometime now and that is why the discussions at that level have moved on the the appropriate function of the Petrine Office. But for a bunch of amateurs, I think we've played our small part here and will continue to do so.
Christ is Born!
Here's your sign:
On this topic, from me, base is as good as it's going to get, but thanks for the compliment. :) And because I don't know the ins and outs, I didn't want to associate or disassociate from something about which I know little.
You said that we shouldn't pretend to be part of the Church, do you think we do? As far as I know we do believe that we are something else outside the RC Church, and we are comfortable with that.
Well I want you to know that my having to believe is more authentic than your wanting to believe. You might want to believe but then again you might not want to. That vascillation is caused by rogue free will genes that you contracted when you chose not to creduosly believe the bishops. Now I, on the other hand, don't have to worry about whether it's there or not, I believe so I can go on to bigger things like waiting to believe where it came from and I heard an encyclical is on the way so Im preparing to believe by doing breathing exercises, listening to Taj Mahal and eating nothing but Snickers bars until it comes.
"As far as I know we do believe that we are something else outside the RC Church, and we are comfortable with that."
Actually, I meant that you probably wouldn't care if we believed you guys are heretics of whatever stripe. Kosta and I, by the way, are not members of the Roman Catholic Church either and we're fine with that too (as our Latin brothers are quite content that they are not Orthodox), so you see, we continue to find much in common! :) God Bless!
" You said that we shouldn't pretend to be part of the Church, do you think we do?"
I'm getting old...and it is late. I meant to respond to this comment also.
I do think, or at least after having read here on FR, thought, that Protestants of all manner believe and proclaim that they are part of The Church, as the Orthodox, the Copts, the Armenians, the Latins the Greek Catholics, the Melkites, the Maronites etc. are. I didn't mean to imply that you thought that you are Roman Catholics (or any other of the listed particular churchs within The Church). For us (those listed above) Protestant "churches" are not, as +BXVI wrote, strictly speaking churches but rather are ecclesial assemblies. In consequence of that attitude, I should think you would quite properly not give a fig if we in The Church as it has been defined for the last 2000 years, called you, or believed you to be Donatists (or whatever else).
One thing that might amaze you is that, counter intuitively, Baptists actually believe that baptism has nothing to do with salvation! Get a load of that! :) We actually believe that baptism as a believer is very important, and is required for church membership, but the issue of salvation is no where in the picture. We see it as an outward and public sign of an obedience to God. Jesus did it, said we should do it, so we should do it. I think it's pretty funny myself, because it is perfectly reasonable for any non-Baptist to assume the opposite.
Candor would not allow me to deny using "weird" had we exchanged places in those posts.
... the Holy Ghost is something that propagates from the Apostles and through the Apostolic Church. ... that the Chruch is protected from error by the Holy Ghost and that lay interpretation is not similarly protected and is in fact a foolish enterprise.
Man inherits sin of Adam as original sin. It is a state of spiritual woundedness which makes us uncapable of union with God outside of the divine Grace.
It seems to me that throughout the Bible sin is equated with death, sometimes physically, always spiritually. "For the wages of sin is death", + 100 others. Where does this "woundedness" idea come from, and why is it superior to the "sin equals death" idea found prominently in scripture?
You know my question. :)
LOL.
Protestant "churches"...
In quotes, no less. So we Bible-believing, God-fearing Protestants are not part of Christ's Church on earth?
Keep your figs or fruit of choice. I'll trust in the only vine.
II. The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the gospel (not confined to one nation as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion, together with their children; and is the Kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ; the house and family of God, through which men are ordinarily saved and union with which is essential to their best growth and service. III. Unto this catholic and visible Church, Christ hath given the ministry, oracles, and ordinances of God, for the gathering and perfecting of the saints, in this life, to the end of the world; and doth by his own presence and Spirit, according to his promise, make them effectual thereunto. IV. This catholic Church hath been sometimes more, sometimes less, visible. And particular Churches, which are members thereof, are more or less pure, according as the doctrine of the gospel is taught and embraced, ordinances administered, and public worship performed more or less purely in them. V. The purest Churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error: and some have so degenerated as to become apparently no Churches of Christ. Nevertheless, there shall be always a Church on earth, to worship God according to his will. VI. There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ: nor can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof. etc...I. The catholic or universal Church, which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all.
It's the Mother Wheel that Calypso Lou spaketh of! We should all fall down on our prostates.
OOOPS!, sorry, I knew that. I think I was trying to keep track of capital "C" Church and lower case church. I didn't know the distinction until this thread. Including your post in #610, you're right in that I am not offended by being considered or thought of as "whatever". (I've been called worse :) As for donatism, I just wanted to be super careful not to accept a comparison, because I knew that the minute I did, it would turn out that (unknown to me) donatists would frequently enjoy group pedophilia. :) God bless!
You mean, the ritual, -- the water and the prayers, -- does not have anything to do with salvation. You certainly believe that a profession of faith has everything to do with it. I think, I expressed my knowledge of this belief in 551. I also agreed to a refined statement of what the baptists believe in 558. I, of course, disagree on the truth of that belief, but I think I have grasped its essence. Am I still inaccurate?
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