Posted on 01/01/2006 4:48:03 PM PST by HarleyD
If you read the article you tell me. Bishop Minatios makes the claim that I snipped from the article; that Jacob was saved because God foreknew him to be good. Then Bishop Minatios claims that no one can understand predestination. If no one can understand predestination why is Bishop Minatios trying to explain it? And my logic is questioned here?!?
Since everyone is complaining about my interpretation of the article, I would suggest someone else write up the Cliff Notes and summarize Bishop Minatios' article. He's still wrong and (going back to this article) it supports the Pelagius error of man's free will as addressed in this article-not my definition.
"God gave him what he wanted. That is love"
Love is giving him what he needed not what he wanted. You can't call it love when you know Enoch was forfeiting his inheritance and blessing on a mess of soup; a stupid choice.
Saint Catherine of Siena was illiterate most of her life. Yet,
For three years, Catherine lived a life of prayer, silence, and austerity in her tiny 9-by-12-foot room. During the Carnival of 1366, she experienced a mystical betrothal to Christ.The girl was was with Christ, that's all.[...]
Catherine lived the life of a dozen women. She was an ambassador and peace-maker, a nurse and a healer and a powerful evangelist whose very presence triggered innumerable conversions. She served as a counselor to Popes, queens, priests, housewives, and condemned prisoners, while composing one of the great works of Christian mysticism. Importantly, it was her status as a single laywoman that set Catherine of Siena free to answer a call from God that would alter the course of Western history and result in her becoming the first lay Doctor of the Church
Do you think Enoch needed the status of the firstborn? What would he do with it? They guy was dumb.
Esau
Interesting response.
Just so hard to keep those OT folks straight :)
You're referring to Sodom & Gomorrah?
A part of salvation or a fruit? Necessary for salvation or a part of the accomplished act?
The Holy Spirit converts men."Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." -- John 15:16
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." -- Acts 13:48
Christian mysticism
Outside of the vastness of God, the life and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the miraculous nature of the Trinity, the term "Christian mysticism" can be a loaded, misguided phrase.
LOL, LOL
I typed Esau, honest, but God must have hated him so much He must have substituted Enoch, someone He really loved.
I'm sure both of you mean Esau and no Enoch. But speaking of dumb, if Esau didn't "need the status of the firstborn", why was Isaac so insistent on giving it to him anyway - and why would Jacob have any need of it, either?
But first, a song. Sit back, turn up the radio, and sing along with me to this Alex Murphy Jukebox Classic from 2003...
Esau Didn’t Wait
Sung to Paula Cole’s “I Don’t Want to Wait”So Jacob got the blessing, right?
and Esau got the shaft all right
Isaac wasn’t good or blind
you need to read the other side
Rebekah had two babies
one was red and one was clean
Gen 25:24
Isaac loved his meat
Jacob got the short sheet
The older was supposed to serve the younger
Would both sons get blessings from their father?
CHORUS:
Esau wouldn’t wait
he thought his life would be over
He wants to eat right now
what will it be
Jacob said okay
Just sign your double blessing over
Did he say “yes” or did he say
”sorry”?
He showed up hairy
on Isaac’s front step
carrying fresh meat for his kin
Isaac gave him everything
More than the double blessing
Jacob knew Isaac meant him harm
then Esau came and found
Isaac left him nothing
[Chorus]
Don’t you look at me
from across the room, saying
I’m reading into it again
Jacob he knew the feeling
Isaac disowned him to favor his brother
But Rebekah knew her husband’s weakness
Jacob’s last chance was that moment
and you think that Jacob did what
his father and his father and his father did
Go and read Genesis now…
[Chorus]
So Jacob got the blessing, right?
and Esau got the shaft all right
Isaac wasn’t good or blind
you need to read the other side
[Chorus] (2 times)So Jacob got the blessing, right?
and Esau got the shaft all right
Isaac wasn’t good or blind
you need to read the other side
A musical interlude!
I've missed them.
Hmmmm. Must be a miracle. Call the Cardinal. Somebody needs to be sainted.
"Do you think Enoch needed the status of the firstborn?:
Need has nothing to do with it. The rule of primogeniture gave the eldest the double portion of his father's estate and the blessing that went with it. God had shown Rebecca that regardless, the birthright and the blessing were going to Jacob and He brought it about just like He promised. Esau could do no different. His whole life's experience and education conditioned him to bargain them away. God kept His promise.
It looks like his name was mysteriously transported to post 1085.
Dr. Eckleburg: Say it again I love to hear the story.
jo kus: Somehow the following verses confuse the minds of those who add anything to the completed work of the One Sacrifice & the One Mediator.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (King James Version)
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Note that the gift is similar to talents received at physical birth in that the recipient is unable to do a thing; the gift can not be refused. The miracle of re-birth is a singular event in the new life of the believer; an event on a par with resurrection from physical death. Grace is the sole motivation for causing one to be reborn; faith is a result of re-birth. Good works follow, like a caboose. We are regenerated for good works which God prepared beforehand.
You know you might be onto something there. I notice when I type p's they mysteriously appear as o's. Sometimes when I try to play an A minor chord it comes out an E chord. I think there is more to this than i thought. I'll get back after I consult the ECF's on this. I'm sure there is an obscure desert somebody that has an explanation.
Jo kus, if you haven't read this already, the link is divided into 8 sections. The fourth discusses the "blotting out" issue we were talking about.
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