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To: markomalley

I think the person in the article's big mistake is to reduce it to a political debate, it isn't a political debate, it is a problem with 2 specific issues of doctrine. It is also not a question with a clear cut black and white historically verifibale right or wrong answer.

It is folly to assume it is simply a political issue.

That said an advantage I find of the Orthodox churches in America is that because they are smaller and closer knit, and even tied to the church as deeply as their national origins (note I've never met anyone who took offense at someone else's national origins in the Orthodox church but have found most to be proud of their heritage and dedicated to preserving it in their families) they live up to doctrine a lot better.

On paper the Catholic and Orthodox doctrine differ only very slightly. I do no expect anyone will be denied heaven for not acknowledging a primacy of jurisdiction of the pope nor for omiting the filoque. Nor do I suspect the inverse will deny one from heaven.

However there are big troubles in the PRACTICE of Catholic doctrine in America. Few go to confession before every communion (a problem liberal Orthodox churches have as well). Few follow the fasts (I would say I think more Orthodox obey the fasts on average, though it isn't universally practiced). Christmas on the 25th is highly commercialized, celebrating on the 7th of January one can feel less distracted by material concerns. The clergy sex abuse scandal and numbers of homosexual clergy in the Catholic church, especially not at all far from where I live is quite alarming. There are practical issues that are not ones of simple "doctrine of salvation" which make the Orthodox church attractive.

A big part of going to church is the faithful keeping eachother in line, almost as a support group would for an alcoholic. I don't deny there are deeply Orthodox pockets of Catholics but they are harder to find. That's a big reason I went with the Orthodox church even after attending Catholic school. I see a lot more Orthodox practicing the doctrine.


51 posted on 12/12/2005 9:11:20 AM PST by x5452
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To: x5452
That said an advantage I find of the Orthodox churches in America is that because they are smaller and closer knit, and even tied to the church as deeply as their national origins ... they live up to doctrine a lot better.

I have found similar advantages at the ethnic Catholic parish I go to. There is a sense of shared devotion that I don't often see in non-ethnic parishes. I do think it's a drawback when relating to the universal Church, but there are clear advantages.

Christmas on the 25th is highly commercialized, celebrating on the 7th of January one can feel less distracted by material concerns.

I'll be celebrating Christmas with my family on Epiphany this year, since I'll be out of the country among the heathens the next few weeks. We've pulled back on gift-giving (again) -- at least the more ostentatious aspects -- theme for this year for gifts & Christmas is think of the inner child / think of the Christ Child -- and Pope Benedict has jumped on the bandwagon.

56 posted on 12/12/2005 9:41:04 AM PST by JohnnyZ (Veterans' Day. Enough said.)
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To: x5452
However there are big troubles in the PRACTICE of Catholic doctrine in America. Few go to confession before every communion (a problem liberal Orthodox churches have as well). Few follow the fasts (I would say I think more Orthodox obey the fasts on average, though it isn't universally practiced). Christmas on the 25th is highly commercialized, celebrating on the 7th of January one can feel less distracted by material concerns. The clergy sex abuse scandal and numbers of homosexual clergy in the Catholic church, especially not at all far from where I live is quite alarming. There are practical issues that are not ones of simple "doctrine of salvation" which make the Orthodox church attractive.

I can see that very well. And you have a point...

But as you accurately point out, orthodoxy is largely parish by parish in the Church. Fortunately, despite our liberal ordinary, there are a few orthodox parishes around here with a few orthodox clergy.

59 posted on 12/12/2005 10:21:50 AM PST by markomalley (Vivat Iesus!)
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