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To: Rutles4Ever
Why is it that Protestants believe that Christ could change water into wine at Cana, but couldn't change bread and wine into His body and blood? It doesn't compute.

In the miracle of the wine, the wine actually became wine in both appearance and substance. That is how we know it was a miracle. Jesus did not serve up a batch of water and tell everyone it was wine, he took the water and made it into wine and the people saw wine and the tasted wine. In the eucharist you have to take the word of the Priest or the Church that the wine is really blood. It is by all appearances wine. So no "miracle" has occurred. But it isn't wine and God is not lying to your senses. You taste wine because it is wine in both substance and appearance.

If a miracle like Cana occurred then you would taste blood. You don't because it isn't.

157 posted on 12/08/2005 6:07:02 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
In the miracle of the wine, the wine actually became wine in both appearance and substance. That is how we know it was a miracle. Jesus did not serve up a batch of water and tell everyone it was wine, he took the water and made it into wine and the people saw wine and the tasted wine. In the eucharist you have to take the word of the Priest or the Church that the wine is really blood. It is by all appearances wine. So no "miracle" has occurred. But it isn't wine and God is not lying to your senses. You taste wine because it is wine in both substance and appearance.

See? When you really want to, it seems like you understand at least part of transubstantiation. Go with that.

The Eucharist is actually 4 miracles all in one. The complete substance of the bread and wine is obliterated. The substance of God is made present. The accidents of bread and wine are maintained though the underlying substance vanishes. And the accidents of God are suppressed from attaching to God's substance.

SD

163 posted on 12/08/2005 7:06:57 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: P-Marlowe; Rutles4Ever
In the miracle of the wine, the wine actually became wine in both appearance and substance. That is how we know it was a miracle. Jesus did not serve up a batch of water and tell everyone it was wine, he took the water and made it into wine and the people saw wine and the tasted wine. In the eucharist you have to take the word of the Priest or the Church that the wine is really blood. It is by all appearances wine. So no "miracle" has occurred. But it isn't wine and God is not lying to your senses. You taste wine because it is wine in both substance and appearance.

If a miracle like Cana occurred then you would taste blood. You don't because it isn't.

The miracle is even greater when you consider that the water
that was turned into wine was mixed with ashes of the Red Heifer
in order to create the Water of Purification.

see Numbers 19

b'shem Y'shua

166 posted on 12/08/2005 8:05:00 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
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To: P-Marlowe
If a miracle like Cana occurred then you would taste blood. You don't because it isn't.

So, because you can't see God with your own two eyes, He doesn't exist? Because that's the logical extension of enslaving God's reality to our senses, and for the simple fact that "wherever two or more are gathered in my name, there I am with them".

168 posted on 12/08/2005 8:11:25 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
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