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Drawing the Line for Mormons: A Closer Look at the LDS Church
Catholic Exchange ^ | October 17, 2005 | Mary Kochan

Posted on 10/17/2005 6:28:59 AM PDT by NYer

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To: andysandmikesmom

"namely, the discussion and conversation so often does not remain a 'friendly' discussion, but quickly downward spirals into a barrage of insults, name-calling, nasty remarks and the like... "

Good observation. Real Christian-like it is I suppose:).


121 posted on 10/19/2005 5:03:27 AM PDT by moog
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To: Logophile

Anyone who wants to know....

You're right:) We should ask the ACLU if we want to know about the Baptists, the Catholics if we want to know about the 7th Day adventists, Tom Cruise if we want to know about becoming a doctor, Cindy Sheehan if we want to know about Iraq..... The author's intent has suddenly become so much more clearer.


122 posted on 10/19/2005 5:07:05 AM PDT by moog
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To: moog

Insulting?

I think magical underpants are cool!


123 posted on 10/19/2005 5:07:38 AM PDT by WhiteGuy (Vote for gridlock)
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To: kosta50

FR needs more such informative posts.

Lol:)


124 posted on 10/19/2005 5:10:06 AM PDT by moog
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To: SaltyJoe
The Mormon cult attraction is greater for men (given the fleshly desire for multiple sex partners) and it's a burden on wives (and the politics suffered in the Mormon family for women who don't produce).

Monogamist Mormon here (polygamists are excommunicated).

In fact, women convert more readily than men. Women have higher rates of activity than men.

125 posted on 10/19/2005 5:10:43 AM PDT by JCEccles
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To: DaveMSmith

The LDS folks I know have more values in common with me than not. I'd take one for a neighbor any day.

I have had some as neighbors--solid, good, honest people.


126 posted on 10/19/2005 5:12:38 AM PDT by moog
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To: colorcountry

We can disagree and state the reasons why, without stooping to personal attacks.

Indeed. Acting like a liberal does not make one more conservative.


127 posted on 10/19/2005 5:14:07 AM PDT by moog
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To: NYer
George Nouhry would love to find someone, anyone with solid evidence that this planet has been 'seeded' by aliens.

I will introduce him to my ex-wife. Case closed ;)

128 posted on 10/19/2005 5:16:10 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Let's tear down the observatory so we never get hit by a meteor again!)
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To: WhiteGuy

Ask the Mormons or not if it is insulting.


129 posted on 10/19/2005 5:16:33 AM PDT by moog
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To: Coleus
The LDS Church saved the BSA.

The LDS Church worked long and hard and spent an enormous amount of money helping to fight the battle against gay scoutmasters all the way to the Supreme Court, where the BSA eked out a 5-4 victory. Constitutional scholar Michael McConnell (who helped with BSA's appeal) notes that the dissent, authored by uber-liberal Stevens, had the look and feel of a majority opinion, leading McConnell to conjecture that Justice Kennedy flipped his vote at the last minute, relegating Stevens' opinion into second place and saving the case for the BSA.

The LDS Church is at the forefront of many battles to preserve traditional socially conservative values. The LDS Church has the fear and respect of the the ACLU, because the LDS Church is one of the few opponents with the means and the will to meet the ACLU head on and consistently defeat them.

I believe one of the big reasons BYU opened a law school in the mid 1970s was to develop a cadre of smart, constitutionally-attuned lawyers who, after clerking for conservative justices on the Supreme Court, could carry the battle to the liberals seeking to destroy this country. I personally know a few of those lawyer-warriors. Conservatives of all relgious backgrounds should be pleased that the LDS Church cares about these things.

130 posted on 10/19/2005 5:24:04 AM PDT by JCEccles
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To: moog

Lighten up, Francis.


131 posted on 10/19/2005 5:58:39 AM PDT by WhiteGuy (Vote for gridlock)
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To: JCEccles
"women convert more readily than men."

It must be because the Mormon men still know what basic chivalry is. I was friends with a Mormon in college and his standards of gentlemanly courtesy were beyond description. But, I think he converted to Catholicism (Catholic women can do that to a guy...I suppose it's especially attractive when she doesn't believe in contraception and wants a huge family).

What I've studied of Mormons, they've changed from what the original founder had started.
132 posted on 10/19/2005 6:12:46 AM PDT by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
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To: gamarob1

That's fine to disagree, and one can even point out what they think are fallacies with my religion. I am secure enough and my faith strong enough to handle it. I enjoy discussion religion with people, especially similarities and differences. I enjoy experiencing new things, different points of view. That's what drew me to this website in the first palce. But there is a lot of disrespect from many people when said discussion takes place.
Christ was always direct and honest when correcting people. He did it in loving, respectful way that helped people see the light or the error of their ways that caused them to want to change. The disrespect and name calling that goes on here is highly contrary to that.
If you want to call my religion false, that's fine. I have no problem with that. That I could debate and discuss in a logical, constructive way. Just don't be disrespectful. The point one tries to make with hateful statements gets lost when they offend the one they are talking to.
Being LDS, I've become used to people with different beliefs disagree with what I believe. I guess I just expect a level of mutual respect. Afterall, we're all children of God.


133 posted on 10/19/2005 6:19:54 AM PDT by Ragtop (We are the people our parents warned us about)
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To: WhiteGuy
Lighten up, Francis. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE
HOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOH!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I should put you in charge of my diet plan. I need to lose a few pounds. Boy, how did you know my name? You must have extra simple perceptions then. HEHE.

134 posted on 10/19/2005 6:22:39 AM PDT by moog
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To: DaveMSmith
"One could say BSA is the LDS youth program."

Whoa! Bad phrasing! The LDS may be using the BSA to train their youth, but the BSA, overall, is not a religious organization.

I have been involved with the BSA for the last 8 years. The BSA does have the ability to earn religious merit badges, but you can go all the way to Eagle without earning one.

They have recieved high praise for the information put into their religious guide books. Some churches have even used them for their own youth groups.

If you go to a BSA website, you can find out that you can earn Catholic, Protostant, Islamic, Buddist, or other religious merit badges. When you look at all the badges required for Eagle, or other ranks, you will not find the BSA forceing anyone to earn a religious merit badge.

The emphasis of a religion merit badge will vary from Pack/Troop to Pack/Troop, due to who is their Charter organization. Many different churches charter Boy Scout Troops, as well as Clubs(Lions, Elks, etc.) and Organizations (VFW, AM. Legion, etc.). Overall, though, the BSA does not force religion onto its scouts. Sincerely
135 posted on 10/19/2005 8:18:57 AM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: JCEccles
Conservatives of all religious backgrounds should be pleased that the LDS Church cares about these things. >>>


yes, we are

I getting a bit disenfranchised by the bsa, they seem to be getting more and more PC and are lowering the standards to advance in the ranks. If you look at a handbook from the 60's as compared to today, you will see a marked difference. There are eagle scouts today who can barely make a fire because of this low impact camping, they've been using propane stoves.
136 posted on 10/19/2005 9:36:09 AM PDT by Coleus ("Woe unto him that call evil good and good evil"-- Isaiah 5:20-21)
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To: Ragtop
How was I disrepectful? And when did I call you a name?

And disagreeing with false doctrine doesn't make one disrespectful. We're not all equivalent, BECAUSE of what we believe. Children of God are those who are born again of His Spirit, and this occurs only by faith in Jesus Christ alone, nothing else. He died for our sins and rose again, and that's all we have to believe or "do".

137 posted on 10/19/2005 3:39:04 PM PDT by gamarob1 (.)
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To: Coleus
I wonder how this custom came about.

False doctrine

138 posted on 10/19/2005 8:18:20 PM PDT by apackof2 (There's two theories to arguin' with a woman. Neither one works. Will Rogers)
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To: Logophile
I've been to that site and I have done some research and I have read many many tesitimonials from long time LDS members. The article is spot on

And if its wrong which part is wrong?

does the official site address or answer these questions?

Can you?

What does it mean to a Mormon when he/she said that they are "born-again" or

If the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, why have the Mormons changed it? (There have been over 3,000 changes in the Book of Mormon, exclusive of punctuation changes)

If God speaks through a prophet, why do Mormons vote on whether or not to receive and authorize it?

Why is it that no other writings have been found in the language of “Reformed Egyptian”, the supposed language of the Book of Mormon plates? Is there evidence that such a language really existed?

Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to heaven? (See The Young Woman’s Journal, Vol 3, pages 263, 264.)

Why do Mormons not study Hebrew and Greek so that they can intelligently discuss the accuracy of the translation of the Bible?

Joseph Smith prepared fourteen Articles of Faith. Why has the original No. 11 been omitted?

If Mormonism came as a revelation from God, why are the Mormon Temple Oaths almost identical to the oaths of the Masonic Lodge?

Why can't Mormons drink hot liquids? (Coffee/Tea) Why did Joseph Smith condemn drinking yet indulge himself according to his published diary?

139 posted on 10/19/2005 8:29:31 PM PDT by apackof2 (There's two theories to arguin' with a woman. Neither one works. Will Rogers)
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To: Ragtop

Questions all Mormons should ask themselves





1. If Gods are individuals who have passed through mortality and have progressed to Godhood, how has one person of the Trinity (the Holy Spirit) attained Godhood without getting a body? (See Acts 5:3,4)

2. If Gods are individuals who have passed through an earth life to attain Godhood, how is it that one person of the Trinity (Jesus Christ) was God before He received a body or passed through earth life? (Matt. 1:23 and Hebrews 10:5)

3. If the Book of Mormon really contains the fullness of the Gospel, why does it not teach the doctrine of “eternal progression”? (See D&C 20:8,9)

4. God said, “Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any”. How can there be Gods who are Elohim’s ancestors? Surely an all-knowing God would know this and wouldn’t speak falsehoods. (See Isa. 44:8 and Journal of Discourses Vol. 1, pg. 123)

5. How can any men ever become Gods when the Bible says, “Before me there was no god formed, neither shall there be after me”? (Isaiah 43:10)

6. If Adam is the “only God with whom we have to do”, did Adam create himself? (Journal of Discourses Vol. 1, pg. 50, 51)

7. Joseph Smith stated that without the ordinances and authority of the priesthood no man can see the face of God and live (D & C 84:21, 22). He also said that he saw God in 1820 (Joseph Smith 2:17). Joseph Smith, however, never received any priesthood until 1829 (D&C 13). How did he see God and survive? In which was he in error: his revelation in D & C 84:21, 22 or his experience in the grove?

8. If a spirit is a being without a body (See Luke 24:39), why do Mormons teach that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones? (See John 4:24)

9. If the Father is Elohim and Jesus is Jehovah (as the Mormons teach), how does a Mormon explain Deuteronomy 6:4, which in the Hebrew says, “Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah”?

10. If the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the Gospel, why doesn’t it teach that God was once a man?

11. If Mormonism is the restored church, which is based upon the Bible, why are Mormon leaders so quick to state that the Bible is “translated wrong” when faced with some conflict between the Bible and Mormonism?

12. If Jesus was conceived as a result of a physical union between God and Mary, how was Jesus born of a virgin? (Journal of Discourses Vol. 1, page 50)

13. Why did Christ not return in 1891 as Joseph Smith predicted? (History of the Church, Vol. 2 page 182).

14. Journal of Discourses Vol. 2, page 210 says Jesus was being married to Mary and Martha in Cana. Why then was he INVITED to his own wedding? (John 2:1,2)

15. Why does the Mormon church teach that there is no eternal hell when the Book of Mormon teaches that there is? (I Nephi 14:3, II Ne. 9:16;28: 21-23, Mosiah 3:25, Alma 34:35, Heleman 6:28 and 3:25,26).

16. How can Mormons teach that the repentant thief was not saved when the Book of Mormon states that Paradise is where the righteous go? (Luke 23:43, Alma 40:12, 16)

17. How did Nephi with a few men on a new continent build a temple like Solomon’s while Solomon needed 163,300 workmen and seven years to build his temple? (See I Kings 5:13-18 and II Nephi 5:15-17)

18. If the book of Mormon is true, why hasn’t a valid geography been established for the book?

19. Why was Joseph Smith still preaching against polygamy in October 1843 after he got his revelation in July 1843 commanding the practice of polygamy? (D & C 132; and History of the Church Vol. 6, page 46, or Teachings of the Prophet, page 324)

20. If Lehi left Jerusalem before 600 B.C., how did he learn about synagogues? (See II Nephi 26:26)

21. If the Book of Mormon is true, why do Indians fail to become white when they become Mormons? (II Nephi 30:6 – prior to 1981 revision)

22. What kind of chariots did the Nephites have in 90 B.C. some 1500 years before the introduction of the wheel on the Western Hemisphere? (Alma 18:9)

23. How do Mormons account for the word “church” in the Book of Mormon, about 600 B.C., which was centuries before the beginning of the Church on the day of Pentecost? (I Nephi 4:26)

24. How do Mormons account for the italicized words in the King James Version (indicating their absence in the Hebrew and Greek) being found in the Book of Mormon? (A comparison of Mosiah 14 and Isaiah 53 will provide at least 13 examples)

25. How did the French word “adieu” get into the Book of Mormon? (Jacob 7:27)

26. Was it right or wrong for Solomon to have many wives? (See Jacob 2:24; D & C 132:38,39) Which is it?

27. If polygamy was a provision for increasing population rapidly, why did God give Adam only one wife?

28. D&C 129:4, 5 says, “When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you. If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.” How can this test distinguish between an angel of God and a Jehovah’s Witness missionary…or a Mormon Elder.

29. If Joseph Smith was a true prophet, why did he fail to realize that “Elias” is the N.T. form of the name “Elijah”? (D & C 110:12,13 and 1 Kings 17:1 and James 5:17) How could Elijah (Elias) have appeared to Joseph Smith in the Kirkland Temple as two different people?

30. If children have no sins until they are eight years old, why are they baptized at age eight to wash away non-existent sins? (See Moroni 8:8)

31. How could the Garden of Eden have been in Missouri when the Pearl of Great Price declares that it was in the vicinity of Assyria and had the Euphrates and Hiddekel Rivers in it? (See P of GP Moses 3:14 and D&C 116 and 117; Genesis 2:8-15)

32. Brigham Young said, “The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy”. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, page 269) Why did the Mormons yield to the pressure of the government and stop practicing polygamy?

33. Heber C. Kimball stated, “We are th people of Deseret, she shall be no more Utah: we will have our own name”. Why did this prophecy fail? (J of D. Vol. 5, page 161)

34. How did Joseph Smith carry home the golden plates of the Book of Mormon, and how did the witnesses lift them so easily? (They weighted about 230 lbs. Gold, with a density of 19.3 weighs 1204.7 lbs. Per cubic foot. The plates were 7” x 8” by about 6”. See Articles of Faith, by Talmage, page 262, 34th Ed.)

35. When Christ died, did darkness cover the land for three days of for three hours? (See Luke 23:44 and III Nephi 8:19, 23)

36. If the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, why have the Mormons changed it? (There have been over 3,000 changes in the Book of Mormon, exclusive of punctuation changes)

37. If God speaks through a prophet, why do Mormons vote on whether or not to receive and authorize it?

38. It has been established that the “Sensen” manuscript was simply a common Egyptian burial papyrus. Why do the Mormons still accept the Book of Abraham which was translated from that manuscript?

39. Why is it that no other writings have been found in the language of “Reformed Egyptian”, the supposed language of the Book of Mormon plates? Is there evidence that such a language really existed?

40. Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to heaven? (See The Young Woman’s Journal, Vol 3, pages 263, 264.)

41. Why do Mormons not study Hebrew and Greek so that they can intelligently discuss the accuracy of the translation of the Bible?

42. Joseph Smith prepared fourteen Articles of Faith. Why has the original No. 11 been omitted?

43. According to Hebrews 7:24, the Melchizedek Priesthood is not transferable. Why do Mormons pass it from one to another?

44. If Mormonism came as a revelation from God, why are the Mormon Temple Oaths almost identical to the oaths of the Masonic Lodge?

45. Why did the Nauvoo House not stand forever and ever? (D&C 124:56-60)

46. If genealogies are important, why does the New Testament tell Christians to avoid them? (I Timothy 1:4; Titus 3:9)

47. The Bible says, “The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth from all sin”. Why did Brigham Young say that there are some sins which can be atoned for only by the shedding of ones own blood.

48. God rejected the fig leaf aprons which Adam and Eve made. Why do Mormons memorialize the fall by using fig leaf aprons? (Gen. 3:21)

49. Why do Mormons insist that Ezekiel 37:15-22 is about two books instead of about two kingdoms as god Himself explained in verse 22?

50. If Acts 3:20, 21 is a prophecy about the restoration of Mormonism, why didn’t Jesus return in 1830?

51. Revelation 14:6,7 is part of the body of prophecy about the future Great Tribulation. How could that passage have been fulfilled by Moroni in 1830?

52. In light of Ezekiel 28:13-15 and Hebrews 1:5, how can Satan and Jesus be brothers (as the Mormons teach)? (note: Satan was created)

53. If no person ever receives the Holy Spirit before baptism or without the laying on of hands, how does a Mormon explain the case of Cornelius? (See Acts 10:44-47)

54. If baptism for the dead was a Christian ceremony, why did Paul use the pronoun “they” rather than “we” or “ye”? Why did he exclude himself and other Christians when referring to it? (I Cor. 15:29)

55. Since the Bible says that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife, how can Mormons claim that polygamy is proper for New Testament Christians? (I Timothy 3:2)

56. Why does the Mormon church teach that the broad way leads to the Terrestrial Heaven when Jesus taught that it leads to destruction? (Matthew 7:13, 14)

57.


140 posted on 10/19/2005 8:37:04 PM PDT by apackof2 (There's two theories to arguin' with a woman. Neither one works. Will Rogers)
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