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To: gbcdoj
"Leaders of the Anglican Church in America, one of the 44 national churches in the conservative body, were in Portland this week considering a plan to begin formal conversations with the Roman Catholic Church about establishing intercommunion."

I assume that the Anglican Church is proposing intercommunion. If so, I thought the Catholic Church has long since declared Anglican ordinations and sacraments invalid, which would make the proposition of intercommunion absurd.

Now receiving this church into the Church would be something that could happen, with the Anglican Use and everything that would go with it.

Please correct me if I am wrong on any of this.

10 posted on 09/27/2005 3:51:13 PM PDT by tlRCta (St. Joseph, pray for us!)
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To: tlRCta

My understanding is that the TAC clergy may be willing to submit to reordination "sub conditione" by Catholic bishops. There have already been a considerable amount of informal discussions between TAC and Vatican officials and this problem of the ordinations presumably would have been brought up (we know that B-16 is not willing to budge on this question and so does the TAC). There is some info about this in the comments of the article on VirtueOnline.

This proposal would not be the same as the Anglican Use because it would involve the maintenance of separate ecclesiastical structures, just like the Eastern Catholic Churches have. So they'd have their own Bishops, one or more Seminaries, etc., unlike the current AU situation where it is carried out under the aegis of the local Latin Rite bishop.


14 posted on 09/27/2005 4:37:02 PM PDT by gbcdoj (Let us ask the Lord with tears, that according to his will so he would shew his mercy to us Jud 8:17)
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To: tlRCta

The subject of the validity of Anglican orders in general may be more complex than most of us realize. It is true that Leo XIII declared in "Apostolicae Curae", that Anglican orders are (or at least, were at that time) invalid, and also that then Card. Ratzinger listed "Apostolicae Curae" as a document entitled to near infallible weight, in his note on the assent to be given to pronouncements from the Holy See.

On the other hand, several things have happened in the more than 100 years since A.C., most notably the practice, apparently widespread in Anglo-Catholic circles, starting about in the 1920's I think, of having ordination conferred jointly by Old Catholic or Orthodox bishops (whose ordinations are accepted by Rome), in addition to the regular Anglican bishops, thus allowing for what some call a "revival of orders" position.

This situation is one reason why the lineage of the orders of any Anglican priest who wishes to convert and become a Catholic priest is studied. While most of the time we Romans re-ordain such priests, in some few cases, most notably that of (now) Msgr Graham Leonard (former Anglican Bishop of London), the ordination is conditional, allowing for the possibility of prior valid order.

If the intercommunion movement gets going, I would expect the same kind of study to occur, and some kind of re-ordination (or maybe confirmation of orders) to take place, so that everyone is sure of things. My friends in the TAC tell me the tracing of their orders is in fact being prepared and documented now for submission to Rome at the proper time.


15 posted on 09/27/2005 4:43:42 PM PDT by Theophane
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To: tlRCta

I understand that a major source of orders in the TAC is the Polish National Catholic Church, which the Catholic Chruch recognizes as having valid orders through the Old Catholic Church of Utrecht.


28 posted on 09/28/2005 8:57:24 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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