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To: Conservative til I die

The current homosexual scandal in the Church does a pretty good job of backing up my contention.

Name me some other religions (aside form Mormons) who allow their pastors to marry who have homosexual / pedophillic scandals happening. Lutherans? Baptists? Jews? Evangelicals?

Celibacy is NOT a normal human state for man or woman. To continue to insist upon it and denying that sexuality is one of God's gifts has lead us to this morass.


59 posted on 09/25/2005 6:28:03 PM PDT by 43north (If you're not liberal at 20 you have no heart. If you're still liberal at 40 you have no brain.)
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To: 43north
Name me some other religions (aside form Mormons) who allow their pastors to marry who have homosexual / pedophillic scandals happening. Lutherans? Yes. Baptists? Yes. Jews? Yes. Evangelicals? Yes.

You know not of what you speak.

Sexual Abuse of Children by Protestant Ministers

Sex abuse spans spectrum of churches

Sexual Exploitation by Clergy

Sexual misconduct in schools extensive

Celibacy is NOT a normal human state for man or woman. To continue to insist upon it and denying that sexuality is one of God's gifts has lead us to this morass.

Those who choose the discipline of celibacy do so freely. No one is forced to take the vow. That's one of the reasons why the formation process to become a Priest is such a lengthy one. No one has a right to be ordained a Catholic Priest either.

The question you should be asking ypurself is why there are so few "ministers" who follow the example of Christ, St. Paul, John the Baptist, the Apostles, et al in choosing the discipline when it was so highly praised by same.

60 posted on 09/25/2005 6:52:12 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: 43north
Celibacy is NOT a normal human state for man or woman. To continue to insist upon it and denying that sexuality is one of God's gifts has lead us to this morass.

I am sure Jesus and St. Paul, two of my favorite celibates will be glad to know that. And who says it is abnormal? MTV? Advertisers? People Magazine?

BTW, the Catholic Church has always taught that sexuality is a gift from God, as it allows humans to share in the procreative process with God while allowing a man and a woman to express their love physically to one another. However, the Church has always taught that like all other things, sex has its place. And its place has always been in a state of monogamous matrimony. Most of the other Christian sects taught this as well for most of their histories.
68 posted on 09/26/2005 5:14:50 AM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: 43north

You are in essence saying that we are all no better than just a bunch of barnyard animals who "HAVE TO" have it. You must be saying that you yourself are enslaved to your flesh. Most people do have sexual impulses, that is natural for sure. But following God in this way as a priest is otherworldly, and I think that all of us better get used to this otherworld life, because its gonna be a long, long, long, long, long, long, long, really really really really long time we're gonna be spending with God or Satan, and I have heard (sarc) that none of us will be having sex in either place. Sex is a worldly thing. If we can't wrap our minds around that thought, then prayer and endless amounts of it are seriously needed.

Remember all: We know for sure that Jesus said that my kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD. He also said that no one will be married or given in marriage in heaven.


77 posted on 10/01/2005 9:53:34 AM PDT by SaintDismas (Jest becuz you put yer boots in the oven, don't make it bread)
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To: 43north
"denying that sexuality is one of God's gifts has lead us to this morass.

Since Matrimony is a Sacrament --- a means by which we receive grace and become more God-pleasing --- and sexual intercourse is a constitutive element of the Sacrament, and is considered part of the "mysterium tremendum" spoken of by the apostle Paul, an image of the love of Christ and the Church, I would hardly say that the Catholic Church has "denied" that sexuality is a gift of God!

In fact, the criticism one hears more often these days, is that the Church makes entirely too much of sex; that the Church insists too much on sex having lasting meaning; that, rather than sex being trivialized, it is in Catholicism too much exalted, regarded as the root of all human society here on earth and a metaphor of heaven to come.

I treasure the "high" view, myself. Not that I have always lived it in every thought, word, and deed, but I treasure it and try to live up to it.

I regard the Catholic Church as one of the few really comprehensive defenders of Sex. In the Church, marriage and celibacy share the same meaning: marriage, because the sexual union of man and woman is such a good gift; celibacy, as a sacrifice, and a sign that the best is yet to come.

82 posted on 10/01/2005 11:16:52 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (In the image and likeness of God.)
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To: 43north

"Celibacy is NOT a normal human state for man or woman. " You're right if you add "for a man or woman in the fallen condition we are all born into".

But in the spiritual pure state that we are instructed by God to stive for, one can be celibate and at the same time perfectly at peace.


84 posted on 10/01/2005 3:41:38 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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