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To: sempertrad
- "The Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord." [Pope Innocent - III Epistle to the Count of Nevers, 1208]

* Denzinger doesn't list this. Other than a schismatic website, do you have a source?

All the other wreitings from the saints are immaterial. Unless baptized and approved and promoted as Doctrine by the Maagisterium, they have no authority.

Now, in the meantime, if you think the Jews cursed, if you think Vatican Two was a Jewish conspiracy, if you think 911 was a Jewish conspiracy, I am not surprised. The rad-trads have a deep, dark, and deadly disease called antisemitism.

It msut be repudiated, not defended. God have mercy on your soul. Repent while you still have time.

P.S. Do you have a single referent from a Papal Encyclical, a Document from any Ecumenical Council, a citation from any approved Catechism teaching what the Jews as a race are guilty of deicide and consequently cursed.

Don't you even read the Bible "And Jesus said: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

Our first Pope p[roclaimed their ignorance 12 But Peter seeing, made answer to the people: Ye men of Israel, why wonder you at this? Or why look you upon us, as if by our strength or power we had made this man to walk?

13 The God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus, whom you indeed delivered up and denied before the face of Pilate, when he judged he should be released.

14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just: and desired a murderer to be granted unto you.

15 But the author of life you killed, whom God hath raised from the dead: of which we are witnesses.

16 And in the faith of his name, this man, whom you have seen and known, hath his name strengthened. And the faith which is by him hath given this perfect soundness in the sight of you all.

17 And now, brethren, I know that you did it through ignorance: as did also your rulers.

*Some Jewish individuals acted out of ignorance and this means the ENTIRE Jewish race is cursed?

I have heard that Mel got these nutball ideas from his Daddy. Mayb ehe did and maybe he didnt. But they sure as hell aint Catholic Doctrine.

Catholic Catechism 597 The historical complexity of Jesus' trial is apparent in the Gospel accounts. The personal sin of the participants (Judas, the Sanhedrin, Pilate) is known to God alone. Hence we cannot lay responsibility for the trial on the Jews in Jerusalem as a whole, despite the outcry of a manipulated crowd and the global reproaches contained in the apostles' calls to conversion after Pentecost.[385] Jesus himself, in forgiving them on the cross, and Peter in following suit, both accept "the ignorance" of the Jews of Jerusalem and even of their leaders.[386] Still less can we extend responsibility to other Jews of different times and places, based merely on the crowd's cry: "His blood be on us and on our children!", a formula for ratifying a judicial sentence.[387] As the Church declared at the Second Vatican Council: . . . neither all Jews indiscriminately at that time, nor Jews today, can be charged with the crimes committed during his Passion. . . the Jews should not be spoken of as rejected or accursed as if this followed from holy Scripture.[388] All sinners were the authors of Christ's Passion

598 In her Magisterial teaching of the faith and in the witness of her saints, the Church has never forgotten that "sinners were the authors and the ministers of all the sufferings that the divine Redeemer endured."[389] Taking into account the fact that our sins affect Christ himself,[390] the Church does not hesitate to impute to Christians the gravest responsibility for the torments inflicted upon Jesus, a responsibility with which they have all too often burdened the Jews alone:

We must regard as guilty all those who continue to relapse into their sins. Since our sins made the Lord Christ suffer the torment of the cross, those who plunge themselves into disorders and crimes crucify the Son of God anew in their hearts (for he is in them) and hold him up to contempt. And it can be seen that our crime in this case is greater in us than in the Jews. As for them, according to the witness of the Apostle, "None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." We, however, profess to know him. And when we deny him by our deeds, we in some way seem to lay violent hands on him.[391]

Nor did demons crucify him; it is you who have crucified him and crucify him still, when you delight in your vices and sins.[392]

*Semper...flee the schism it has already posioned your mind and it is destroying your soul.

You have now arrived at that place where you will try and publicly claim the Catholic Church Teaches Racism - Can it truly be said that the Jewish race is guilty - and a particularly ugly racism at that - that God's chosen people are cursed.

192 posted on 09/19/2005 1:08:23 PM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
All the other wreitings from the saints are immaterial. Unless baptized and approved and promoted as Doctrine by the Maagisterium, they have no authority.

You were accusing the SSPX of "antisemitic heresy" because of their views of the death of Christ and the Jewish people. I showed you that some of the saints spoke the same way. I wasn't trying to argue for or against the doctrinal weight on the subject Jews, Deicide, and curses. My point was that if those I quoted have not been judged as "antisemitic heretics" for their views, then the Society cannot be labeled such, either.

Now, in the meantime, if you think the Jews cursed

If I agree with what St. Alphonsus said in his "The Passion and Death of Jesus Christ" I'm a heretic? An antisemitic? If I believe that there is a hatred for Christianity among many Jews in positions of power, I'm a heretic? An antisemite? If I merely question the existance of gas chambers at Auschwitz, I'm a heretic? An antisemite?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, could you show me which doctrine(s) I've denied and thus making me a heretic? Could you please explain how thinking that a rejection of Christ is not exactly a likeable belief makes one an anti-semite?

*Some Jewish individuals acted out of ignorance and this means the ENTIRE Jewish race is cursed?

I have heard that Mel got these nutball ideas from his Daddy. Mayb ehe did and maybe he didnt. But they sure as hell aint Catholic Doctrine.


Bornacatholic, are you saying that St. Alphonsus is a "nutball" for believing in this curse?!
208 posted on 09/19/2005 2:17:53 PM PDT by sempertrad ("You call this a multi-media event? This is a slide projector and a bedsheet!" - A. Asparagus)
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