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Blog Rodent on the AMIA - Tasty Bread and Tradition
Drell's Descants ^
| 8/21/2005
| Brad Drell
Posted on 08/22/2005 8:23:35 AM PDT by sionnsar
This article makes me want to leave ECUSA and become one of the Anglicans Missing in America, as my mother in law jokes - I could take the flak, for we are not citizens of this world; our citizenship is in heaven. But, oh to belong to a church that was really like this - it describes a dream Ive had, but never experienced except at Cursillo and a few rare Eucharists here and there, and heard of in a few churches here and there (like Christ Church, Plano):
While I attended Kevins ordination last night, I was struck by how unfamiliar and yet comfortable I was in the service. Coming from a Baptist and Assemblies of God background, my church liturgy style is much less formal, less symbolic, and involves a lot less reading and responding. However, the AMiA is a fully Evangelical church, and, get this, its Charismatic. When fellow ministers laid hands on the ordination candidates, I clearly heard a few prayers in tongues come over the loudspeaker. There were a couple Vineyard songs thrown in the mix, and the worship team felt as familiar to me as anything Ive seen in our A/G churches. I was nervous about communion, because I wasnt sure if it would be closed, like Catholic communion often is, but it was made clear that those of us who were not Anglican should feel free to join in communion if we followed Christ as Savior and Lord, and we were provided non-alcoholic grape juice if we preferred not to drink the wine.
As the AMiA FAQ page says, no church is admitted into the the Mission if its not fully missionalmeaning, it must be fully committed to evangelism and reaching the lost, not merely grabbing believers from other churches. Indeed, the stats on the site indicate that at least 60% of the congregants are new believers.
Wow. (Wow indeed. Considering the plummet inside ECUSA, it is obvious that Anglicanism can grow if it but has the Gospel. It then turns out one of the ordinands is leaving the Assemblies of God, and this dialogue ensues:)
Noting that the Assemblies of God and Methodism share a lot of theology in common, he remarked that we accept scripture, we accept experience (a major bulwark of Pentecostal theology), we accept reasonwith less suspicion now than we used tobut we are weak on tradition. Jack has come to believe that this is something we are missing in the A/G, and we would do well to learn from the deep well-spring of church history.
I tend to agree. Turn on TBN and youll see the evidence of a Pentecostal/Charismatic faith that is not rooted in tradition: its easily influenced and swayed by every new thing that comes along. Admittedly, TBN is not an Assemblies of God entity, but who in the A/G hasnt noted the winds of new doctrines that sweep along from time to time?
In truth, we do have our own traditions. And we do have our own liturgythough it is not recognized as such. But couldnt our traditions be enriched by the larger church world rather than rejecting it all outright as dead faith? I dont know. What would such a church look like?
It might look a lot like an AMiA church.
This would be such a home for me. Read the whole thing by Rich Tatum, the BlogRodent.
TOPICS: Mainline Protestant
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1
posted on
08/22/2005 8:23:35 AM PDT
by
sionnsar
To: ahadams2; Fractal Trader; Zero Sum; anselmcantuar; Agrarian; coffeecup; Paridel; keilimon; ...
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder
Arlin Adams.
FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this moderately high-volume ping list (typically 3-9 pings/day).
This list is pinged by
sionnsar and
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Resource for Traditional Anglicans:
http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com
Humor:
The Anglican Blue (by Huber)
Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15
2
posted on
08/22/2005 8:23:55 AM PDT
by
sionnsar
(†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || (To Libs:) You are failing to celebrate MY diversity || Iran Azadi)
To: sionnsar
3
posted on
08/22/2005 8:35:52 AM PDT
by
Huber
(For a leftist to become open-minded, they must first come to know Christ)
To: Huber
Yes. The AMiA is very much on the Charismatic side of things.
4
posted on
08/22/2005 8:38:34 AM PDT
by
sionnsar
(†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || (To Libs:) You are failing to celebrate MY diversity || Iran Azadi)
To: sionnsar
5
posted on
08/22/2005 8:42:08 AM PDT
by
Huber
(For a leftist to become open-minded, they must first come to know Christ)
To: Huber
Okay. Maybe I am not understanding your question.
6
posted on
08/22/2005 8:56:25 AM PDT
by
sionnsar
(†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || (To Libs:) You are failing to celebrate MY diversity || Iran Azadi)
To: sionnsar
"I clearly heard a few prayers in tongues come over the loudspeaker."
This seems atypical for an Anglican service.
7
posted on
08/22/2005 1:00:15 PM PDT
by
Huber
(For a leftist to become open-minded, they must first come to know Christ)
To: Huber
From the Evangelical/Charismatic wing, not so surprising -- though during a service as opposed to some other event, maybe a little...
8
posted on
08/22/2005 1:05:02 PM PDT
by
sionnsar
(†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || (To Libs:) You are failing to celebrate MY diversity || Iran Azadi)
To: sionnsar
I have always interpreted "speaking in tongues" to refer to actual other languages outside of Aramaic, Hebrew, Latin or Greek that would have enabled the disciples to evangelize to other nations. The experience this writer is describing seems to be of speaking in languages that are incomprehensible to mortal man in his profanity. Maybe I'm just a snob, but I tend to lump this in the same general category as snake-handling.
9
posted on
08/22/2005 2:38:22 PM PDT
by
Huber
(For a leftist to become open-minded, they must first come to know Christ)
To: Huber
There is a rule, I am given to understand, that if you are truly speaking in tongues, somebody will be able to translate.
A couple members of my family are Charismatic Anglicans. I am not.
10
posted on
08/22/2005 2:43:55 PM PDT
by
sionnsar
(†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || (To Libs:) You are failing to celebrate MY diversity || Iran Azadi)
To: sionnsar
Thank you. This is new to me. Any insight on whether there are standards for the translation (i.e. a known language or independent verifiability of translation?)
It has always seemed unusual to use the term "charismatic" to describe what seems like "showy" worship. Probably an association of "charisma" with leadership qualities such as rhetorical skills, courage, grace under pressure, etc. I find it difficult to disassociate this other self-described charismatic behavior from televangelism, 800 numbers and calling attention to oneself.
(Of course cottas and cassocks and incense could also be construed (by heathens, of course) as showy!)
BTW. I attend an AMiA Church, but our pastor is far more like John Henry Newman than Benny Hinn! lol
11
posted on
08/22/2005 6:46:36 PM PDT
by
Huber
(For a leftist to become open-minded, they must first come to know Christ)
To: sionnsar
Thank you. This is new to me. Any insight on whether there are standards for the translation (i.e. a known language or independent verifiability of translation?)
It has always seemed unusual to use the term "charismatic" to describe what seems like "showy" worship. Probably an association of "charisma" with more understated leadership qualities such as rhetorical skills, courage, grace under pressure, etc.
(Of course cottas and cassocks and incense could also be construed (but only by heathens, of course) as showy!)
BTW. I attend an AMiA Church, but our pastor is far more like John Henry Newman than Benny Hinn! lol
12
posted on
08/22/2005 6:58:35 PM PDT
by
Huber
(For a leftist to become open-minded, they must first come to know Christ)
To: Huber
Thank you. This is new to me. Any insight on whether there are standards for the translation (i.e. a known language or independent verifiability of translation?) To my knowledge there are none. But that is only my knowledge; I am not a Charismatic. My knowledge of same is quite poisoned by a bad experience; I do not want to go there, so I will not comment further even though I know good people who are Charismatics, and Christian.
13
posted on
08/22/2005 7:12:33 PM PDT
by
sionnsar
(†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || (To Libs:) You are failing to celebrate MY diversity || Iran Azadi)
To: sionnsar
14
posted on
08/22/2005 7:59:40 PM PDT
by
Huber
(For a leftist to become open-minded, they must first come to know Christ)
To: sionnsar
Every Sunday in my church, the congregation is invited to speak, edify and exhort the congregation through: "Words from Scripture, Tongues with interpretation, Prophecy or words of Knowledge from the Lord".
Some Sundays it happens, some Sundays it does not. The Sundays it does not are ok too.
I usually ask for these words after the singing of the Sanctus.
I also invite the congregation to "stretch forth their hands with me as members of the Royal Priesthood of all Believers when I lay my hands on the elements and say the words of Consecration.
We also pray the paragraph together: "Sanctify us also, that we may faithfully receive..."
15
posted on
08/23/2005 2:28:33 AM PDT
by
Gman
(AMiA Priest.)
To: Gman; Huber
Thank you. I should have thought of calling on you!
16
posted on
08/23/2005 7:37:29 AM PDT
by
sionnsar
(†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || (To Libs:) You are failing to celebrate MY diversity || Iran Azadi)
To: Gman
Thank you for placing this in context.
17
posted on
08/23/2005 7:12:55 PM PDT
by
Huber
(For a leftist to become open-minded, they must first come to know Christ)
To: Huber
Which congregation do you worship with?
18
posted on
08/23/2005 7:45:00 PM PDT
by
Gman
(AMiA Priest.)
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