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To: OLD REGGIE
Reg ... with all due consideration, ... if you parse these verses correctly, ... they do not speak of any oneness between God and the disciples, ...

He speaks of the same oneness between all believers and God.

No exclusivitely here. (According to Reggie). :)

I am fine. Hope the same for you. Still cherrypicking:
John 17:20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,

21: that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Reg ... I do not see that Jesus is positing any particular type of unity here ... other than a type of spiritual unity ... of the abiding type which He had spoken of before ...
John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
However, thinking back upon your prior comment, ... it occurs to me that Jesus' statement ... "I and the Father are one." ... could be interpreted in a similar manner to the verses you cite, ... in that the type of unity that Jesus speaks of as existing between He and His Father is not distinguished.

So, ... He very well have been declaring unity with the Father in the same way that I would claim union with you as an American, ... but situated in the context (as the conclusion of His prior statements), ... it appears that He is saying more than this.

Further, regarding just a subset of the real issue being debated here (i.e. the deity of Jesus), ... I continue to maintain that there is more than sufficient Old and New Testament evidence on which to base the belief.

If you are interested in such evidences, ... take a look at the following ...
Isaiah 9:6-7 "For to us a child is born... and he will be called ... the Mighty God."

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Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

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Mark 10:17
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

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John 1:1,14 — "The Word was God ... The Word became flesh
and made his dwelling among us."

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John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

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John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

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John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

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Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

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Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

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Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

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Hebrews 1:5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

31 posted on 08/11/2005 1:14:34 PM PDT by Quester (When in doubt ... trust God!)
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To: Quester

Thanks for those scriptures!! You may want to look at post 42 and add to these scriptures.


43 posted on 08/12/2005 9:16:44 AM PDT by navygal
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