Although I tend to be more an an indult trad than SSPXer or independent/sede, I happened to be at a Catholic Family News conference where some of these gentlemen were speaking. Now, the conference was bugging me in many ways, not the least of which was that there were tables selling the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" an Antisemitic piece of trash which was debunked a century ago. Matatics' speech was actually pretty good, and wasn't offensive at all that I remember.
Well, the speeches went on, and up comes one of the speakers, Fr. Somerville I believe it was, now repudiating his former career at ICEL (a good thing IMHO! :). But in the course of his announcement he makes the observation that according to the research he has been doing, the Novus Ordo MAY--he stressed MAY--be invalid.
As soon as he said this, the audience erupted. In APPLAUSE.
That reaction, to me, was far more disturbing than the original statement, and it started to really sour me on this element of traditionalism that takes perverse delight in the supposed "fall" of the Conciliar Church.
Reminds me of that old quote about the Jansenist nuns of Port Royal:
"They are as pure as angels, and as proud as devils."
So your answer to this is to continue attending a Novus Ordo mass that does not offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (please find the words for me in the original Missae) and without a sacrifice it is not a mass as I am sure you know
The Mass itself whether or not it is valid is really not the question-it is the form of worship we choose as catholics and those who are ordained in the likeness of the Apostles to hold forth the Apostolic Traditions handed down
Does the church still hold the "4 Marks" anymore? Is it still holy? Can it be recognized anywhere and everywhere with its form of worship and doctrine? Not in your lifetime
You dont need to be a 30 yr theologian to realize there are some serious doubts with Vatican II and the Mass.
As far at them being "happy"-have you ever considered how these so called "rad trads" feel? Being casted out as so called "schismatics" by JPII who would hold a conference or a meeting with any false faith on this planet in the name of Love Love and Ecumenism-but if you are a traditional catholic they treat you like the plague and push you out, they dont want you to tell the other parishoners of this deep dark secret they are pulling over the innocent person in the pew who does not have the time to read what you and I read. They are afraid of the truth being revealed -and you have to see the disgust when I questioned the priests in the Novus Ordo parishes where I used to attend when I asked about the merits of the new mass, altar girls, Eucharistic ministers, etc. They, the church of Love are the ones filled with Hate, they would rather see no one in the pews than admit they made a mistake.
As far as the trads being "nasty" as you say and calling them "devils", they should not be acting nasty, but they have a right to feel pushed out and played by the Vatican. As far as clapping-what is the big deal, the Mass has serious flaws, from the mass itself, to the simple translation of it. So what is your point then?
The whole Matatics thing is sad and depressing. I have heard many of his tapes and he is undoubtedly a biblical expert and he is undoubtedly very bright and he is undoubtedly highly motivated - but to what end?
What does it profit a man to gain great biblical knowledge and, apparently, triumph over the Church and garner a great reputation as a "traditionalist" if in the process he loses his soul?
Among the extreme traditionalists there exists a limited, and limiting, understanding of Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus (along the lines of Feenyism)which makes their own position vis a vis the Church so dangerous yet they never seem to dwell on that, or even notice it.
The problem appears, for many, to be in their Will, not their intellect. Arguements don't seem to penetrate their intellect. Probably only prayer can penetrate the Will - which, in many traditionalists, is zealously guarded by the sentinel of Pride. And so I pray for Mr. Matatics. What good works he could accomplish were he to put on the cincture of obedience and the sack cloth of penetential humility.