Posted on 08/01/2005 8:16:45 PM PDT by buckeyesrule
Does God So Love the World?
by: John MacArthur
Love is the best known but least understood of all God's attributes. Almost everyone who believes in God these days sees Him as a God of love. I have even met agnostics who are quite certain that if God exists, He must be benevolent, compassionate, and loving.
All those things are infinitely true about God, of course, but not in the way most people think. Because of the influence of modern liberal theology, many suppose that God's love and goodness ultimately nullify His righteousness, justice, and holy wrath. They envision God as a benign heavenly grandfather-tolerant, affable, lenient, permissive, devoid of any real displeasure over sin, who without consideration of His holiness will benignly pass over sin and accept people as they are.
Liberal thinking about God's love also permeates much of evangelicalism today. We have lost the reality of God's wrath. We have disregarded His hatred for sin. The God most evangelicals now describe is all-loving and not at all angry. We have forgotten that "It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31). We do not believe in that kind of God anymore.
We must recapture some of the holy terror that comes with a right understanding of God's righteous anger. We need to remember that God's wrath does burn against impenitent sinners (Psalm 38:1-3). That reality is the very thing that makes His love so amazing. Only those who see themselves as sinners in the hands of an angry God can fully appreciate the magnitude and wonder of His love.
In that regard, our generation is surely at a greater disadvantage than any previous age. We have been force-fed the doctrines of self-esteem for so long that most people don't really view themselves as sinners worthy of divine wrath. On top of that, religious liberalism, humanism, evangelical compromise, and ignorance of the Scriptures have all worked against a right understanding of who God is. Ironically, in an age that conceives of God as wholly loving, altogether devoid of wrath, few people really understand what God's love is all about.
How we address the misconception of the present age is crucial. We must not respond to an overemphasis on divine love by denying that God is love. Our generation's imbalanced view of God cannot be corrected by an equal imbalance in the opposite direction, a very real danger in some circles. I'm deeply concerned about a growing trend I've noticed-particularly among people committed to the biblical truth of God's sovereignty and divine election. Some of them flatly deny that God in any sense loves those whom He has not chosen for salvation.
I am troubled by the tendency of some-often young people newly infatuated with Reformed doctrine-who insist that God cannot possibly love those who never repent and believe. I encounter that view, it seems, with increasing frequency.
The argument inevitably goes like this: Psalm 7:11 tells us "God is angry with the wicked every day." It seems reasonable to assume that if God loved everyone, He would have chosen everyone unto salvation. Therefore, God does not love the non-elect. Those who hold this view often go to great lengths to argue that John 3:16 cannot really mean God loves the whole world.
Perhaps the best-known argument for this view is found the unabridged edition of an otherwise excellent book, The Sovereignty of God, by A. W. Pink. Pink wrote, "God loves whom He chooses. He does not love everybody." [1] He further argued that the word world in John 3:16 ("For God so loved the world…") "refers to the world of believers (God's elect), in contradistinction from 'the world of the ungodly.'"[2]
Pink was attempting to make the crucial point that God is sovereign in the exercise of His love. The gist of his argument is certainly valid: It is folly to think that God loves all alike, or that He is compelled by some rule of fairness to love everyone equally. Scripture teaches us that God loves because He chooses to love (Deuteronomy 7:6-7), because He is loving (God is love, 1 John 4:8), not because He is under some obligation to love everyone the same.
Nothing but God's own sovereign good pleasure compels Him to love sinners. Nothing but His own sovereign will governs His love. That has to be true, since there is certainly nothing in any sinner worthy of even the smallest degree of divine love.
Unfortunately, Pink took the corollary too far. The fact that some sinners are not elected to salvation is no proof that God's attitude toward them is utterly devoid of sincere love. We know from Scripture that God is compassionate, kind, generous, and good even to the most stubborn sinners. Who can deny that those mercies flow out of God's boundless love? It is evident that they are showered even on unrepentant sinners.
We must understand that it is God's very nature to love. The reason our Lord commanded us to love our enemies is "in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous" (Matthew 5:45). Jesus clearly characterized His Father as One who loves even those who purposefully set themselves at enmity against Him.
At this point, however, an important distinction must be made: God loves believers with a particular love. God's love for the elect is an infinite, eternal, saving love. We know from Scripture that this great love was the very cause of our election (Ephesians 2:4). Such love clearly is not directed toward all of mankind indiscriminately, but is bestowed uniquely and individually on those whom God chose in eternity past.
But from that, it does not follow that God's attitude toward those He did not elect must be unmitigated hatred. Surely His pleading with the lost, His offers of mercy to the reprobate, and the call of the gospel to all who hear are all sincere expressions of the heart of a loving God. Remember, He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but tenderly calls sinners to turn from their evil ways and live.
Reformed theology has historically been the branch of evangelicalism most strongly committed to the sovereignty of God. At the same time, the mainstream of Reformed theologians have always affirmed the love of God for all sinners. John Calvin himself wrote regarding John 3:16, "[Two] points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish." [3]
Calvin continues to explain the biblical balance that both the gospel invitation and "the world" that God loves are by no means limited to the elect alone. He also recognized that God's electing, saving love is uniquely bestowed on His chosen ones.
Those same truths, reflecting a biblical balance, have been vigorously defended by a host of Reformed stalwarts, including Thomas Boston, John Brown, Andrew Fuller, W. G. T. Shedd, R. L. Dabney, B. B. Warfield, John Murray, R. B. Kuiper, and many others. In no sense does belief in divine sovereignty rule out the love of God for all humanity.
We are seeing today, in some circles, an almost unprecedented interest in the doctrines of the Reformation and the Puritan eras. I'm very encouraged by that in most respects. A return to those historic truths is, I'm convinced, absolutely necessary if the church is to survive. Yet there is a danger when overzealous souls misuse a doctrine like divine sovereignty to deny God's sincere offer of mercy to all sinners.
We must maintain a carefully balanced perspective as we pursue our study of God's love. God's love cannot be isolated from His wrath and vice versa. Nor are His love and wrath in opposition to each other like some mystical yin-yang principle. Both attributes are constant, perfect, without ebb or flow. His wrath coexists with His love; therefore, the two never contradict. Such are the perfections of God that we can never begin to comprehend these things. Above all, we must not set them against one another, as if there were somehow a discrepancy in God.
Both God's wrath and His love work to the same ultimate end-His glory. God is glorified in the condemnation of the wicked; He is glorified in every expression of love for all people without exception; and He is glorified in the particular love He manifests in saving His people.
Expressions of wrath and expressions of love-all are necessary to display God's full glory. We must never ignore any aspect of His character, nor magnify one to the exclusion of another. When we commit those errors, we throw off the biblical balance, distort the true nature of God, and diminish His real glory.
Does God so love the world? Emphatically-yes! Proclaim that truth far and wide, and do so against the backdrop of God's perfect wrath that awaits everyone who does not repent and turn to Christ.
Does the love of God differ in the breadth and depth and manner of its expression? Yes it does. Praise Him for the many manifestations of His love, especially toward the non-elect, and rejoice in the particular manifestation of His saving love for you who believe. God has chosen to display in you the glory of His redeeming grace.
[1]Arthur W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1930), 29-30.
[2]Ibid., 314.
[3]John Calvin, Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, William Pringle, trans. (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1979 reprint), 123.
Adapted from The God Who Loves © 2001 by John MacArthur. All rights reserved.
• Grace to You (Thursday, July 21, 2005)
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Wrong question, Corin. The question is why does it please Him to elect whom He does and not others. To imply that the elect were chosen because they pleased Him is contrary both to the Reformed view and to Scripture.
There is none except God chose to save some for whatever reason he chooses to his glory.
It is not based on anything in the people; that is all we know. We don't fully know why.
Unlike with Arminianism, Calvinism does have all people equal. We are all the same, and God simply chose to save some of those who were dead for his glory.
Scripture does not tell us why beyond the fact that it pleases Him to choose as He has, and that the choice was not made based on any condition we met.
Only because you can't answer it.
And yet some are more equal than others...
You have the exact same problem with why some to choose to follow Christ and others don't from your perspective. Did God make some more intelligent or spiritually discerning than others? The argument you have for WHY someone chooses to follow our Lord Jesus either comes down to the working of the Spirit or the WORK of one's own choice.
Have a good day boys. I need to get back to work.
Noooo...because you asked why some pleased Him more than others (the implication being that their pleasing Him led Him to choose them), and that is not what we're saying. I assumed you misspoke so I attempted to correct for clarity.
God chooses on the basis of faith in Christ.
The bible tells us that.
You two are again arguing over whether God regenerates due to irresistible grace before we believe or whether we believe due to prevenient grace and then are regenerated.
Answer that question and you win the prize.
*** And yet some are more equal than others...***
Ok you. Stop with the barnyard jokes!
;)
I take it then that you consider yourself more holy and humble than the guy coughing in the pew next to you?
***... more holy and humble than the guy coughing in the pew next to you?***
LOL!
No, I've got the same issues I spoke to. But I've read enough into Church history to know that something is dreadfully wrong with the current state of the Church.
Do you think it might be because he's the pastor of a megachurch?
And things were different when? When people were obligated by law to attend services and to be respectful?
If you don't like the state of the church, then change it. Start your own church. Make it mandatory that everyone act holier than they are.
Don't throw blanket accusations out against everyone sitting in the pews. The fact is that the Church is as it is. Imperfect. It is as good as its members or as bad as its members.
I don't believe it does, and I believe that were it true God indeed would be a respector of persons. "You did this and he did not, therefore I will choose you and not him."
You two are again arguing over whether God regenerates due to irresistible grace before we believe or whether we believe due to prevenient grace and then are regenerated. Answer that question and you win the prize.
No, not really. While that is related, the core issue right now is why God loves some men differently than others. I don't think it is at all Scripturally tenable to state that God loves all men the same in every sense. The question then becomes what is the extent of the difference in His love for some over others and what (if any) objective basis is there for that difference.
Actually I believe I quite clearly sided with MacArthur and Calvin on this one.
But you are in the minority on this thread.
Faith.
Maybe they didn't like the PowerPoint presentation...
I think this is the heart of the message.
God is not obligated to love anyone, he choses to love. If he chooses to love some what do we say of the others?
God chose greek for the NT language because it is a very specific language. it gives greater distinction to the language . As an example one might "love" pizza, but one still throws it in the trash to be burned up. One does not have sexual desires for the pizza or love it like a spouse or friend.
God saw to it we understood the depth of Christ's love of the elect Therefore, God clearly distinguishes agape, the kind of love Christ taught and showed, from storge (natural affection or liking), eros (sexual desire), and philia (friendship).
God has a general love all his creation, we call what he gave as evidence of that 'general grace" The creation all benefits from the sun rising in the morning and the soft rain on our face. Look around and see the blessings bestowed on the non elect . David oft time lamented on that ( that the evil seem to prosper)
But that is not agape love. That is not a love one dies for.That is a general love and care for His creations which He bestows for HIS glory, even if the recipient does not see it.
If God held the same agape love for all men then he would have saved them all.
If scripture tells us God loves who He chooses then Mac Arthur needs to take it to the next level and know that God hates who He chooses also.
Scripture is clear that there are men God hates. That hate is an absence of agape love, not general grace.
Did God love all those he drown in the flood, or destroyed in Sodom?
We might ask what kind of love is that ? We might ask why does God send part of the creation to burn for eternity , that is NOT agape love.
The word of God distinguishes Gods feelings with the word hate.as follows
Mac needs to deal with all the scripture that people like Pink did and then come back
GOD HATES ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY” Psalms 5:5
: Leviticus 20:23: “And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I ABHORRED THEM.”
Leviticus 26:14-30: “If ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments; And if ye shall despise My statutes, or if your soul abhor My judgments, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but that ye break My covenant, I also will do this to you... [send plagues, famine, drought, destructive armies, wild beasts who shall devour your children, pestilence, captivity in a cruel land...] And if ye will not for all this hearken unto Me, but walk contrary to Me; Then I WILL WALK CONTRARY TO YOU IN FURY... I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols, and MY SOUL SHALL ABHOR YOU.”
Deuteronomy 18:12 “For all that do these things are an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD, and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.”
Deuteronomy 25:16: “...ALL THAT DO UNRIGHTEOUSLY ARE AN ABOMINATION UNTO THE LORD.”
Deuteronomy 28:62-63: “Because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God... it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will the Lord will REJOICE OVER YOU TO DESTROY YOU, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.” (In Deuteronomy 27, 28, and 29, 124 CURSES are promised upon the Jews who refused to obey God’s commandments.)
Deuteronomy 32:16-20: “They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations they provoked Him to ANGER... And when the Lord saw it [people sacrificing to devils - v.17], HE ABHORRED THEM...” Psalm 2:4-9: “The Lord that sits in the heavens shall LAUGH [at rebellious men]: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall He speak unto them in His WRATH, and VEX THEM IN HIS SORE DISPLEASURE... [and Christ shall] break them with a rod of iron: Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
Psalm 5:5-6: “The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies): THE LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECEITFUL MAN.”
Psalm 7:11-13: “...God is ANGRY with the wicked every day. If he turn not, He will whet His sword; He hath bent His bow, and made it ready. He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; He ordaineth His arrows against the persecutors.”
Psalm 10:3: “For the wicked... blesseth the covetous, WHOM THE LORD ABHORRETH.”
Psalm 11:5-7: “The Lord trieth the righteous: but THE WICKED AND HIM THAT LOVETH VIOLENCE HIS SOUL HATETH. Upon the wicked He shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous Lord loveth righteousness...”
Psalm 50:22: “Now consider this, ye that forget God, LEST I TEAR YOU IN PIECES, AND THERE BE NONE TO DELIVER.” Psalm 78:59: “When God heard this He was wroth, and GREATLY ABHORRED ISRAEL.” Psalm 106:40: “Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against His people, insomuch that HE ABHORRED HIS OWN INHERITANCE.”
Proverbs 3:32-33: “For the froward is an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD... The CURSE OF THE LORD is in the house of the wicked: but He blesseth the habitation of the just.”
Proverbs 6:16-19: “These six things doth THE LORD HATE: yea, seven are AN ABOMINATION TO HIM... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among the brethren.”
Proverbs 16:5: “Every one that is proud in heart is an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.”
Proverbs 17:5: “He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are ABOMINATION TO THE LORD.”
Proverbs 22:14: “The soul of strange women is a deep pit: HE THAT IS ABHORRED OF THE LORD shall fall therein.”
Jeremiah 17:5: “Thus saith the Lord, CURSED BE THE MAN that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.”
Hosea 9:15: “All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I HATED THEM: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of Mine house, I WILL LOVE THEM NO MORE...”
Malachi 1:3-4: “And I HATED ESAU, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness...thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and the people AGAINST WHOM THE LORD HATH INDIGNATION FOREVER.”
Romans 9:13: “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but ESAU HAVE I HATED.”
I Corinthians 16:22: “If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be ANATHEMA MARANATHA [which means ACCURSED, THE LORD COMETH].”
James 4:4: “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship of the world is ENMITY (or HATRED) WITH GOD? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is an ENEMY OF GOD.”
I Peter 3:12: “For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers: but THE FACE OF THE LORD IS AGAINST THEM THAT DO EVIL.”
Revelation 14:10-11: “[Sinners] shall drink of the wine of the WRATH OF GOD, which is poured without mixture into the cup of HIS INDIGNATION; and he shall be TORMENTED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS, AND IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB; And the smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for ever and ever; and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT...”
Proverbs 22:14 - The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.
Lamentations 2:6 - And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.
Zechariah 11:8 - Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
Psalm 10:3 - For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.
Psalm 11:5 - The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Psalm 53:5 - There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.
Psalm 73:20 - As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.
Psalm 78:59 - When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:
Psalm 106:40 - Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.
Proverbs 6:16-19 - These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among
Leviticus 20:23 - And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
Deuteronomy 32:19 - And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
Psalm 5:6 - Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful *
Psa 11:5** The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Now you may attribute any meaning to the word hate you like, but it is clearly not agape love. It clearly allows God to send some to hell to burn for eternity and rejoice in the vindication of His righteousness .
God does not agape them "just as they are"
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