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To: Aliska

I asked: "Why do people care so passionately and angrily about this sort of thing either way?"


You replied: "Because forms matter more than loving one's neighbor which is what real Christianity is about."

But how does the priest's facing the congregation or having his back to them have anything to do with increasing or lessening the love of one's neighbor?

I can understand that people don't like change and get angry when they think change is foisted on them against their comfort level. That doesn't exactly explain for me why people get so very angry over this particular thing.
It's sort of like the hymn that sings the words of the 91st Psalm. I don't know why the 91st Psalm gets people so dramatically exercised. The words are uplifting, and the music is not terrible. It just seems to be a red flag symbolic thing that gets people angrier than I understand.

But likewise, I can't see how the priest facing the congregation as he performs the consecration improves "loving one's neighbor" or better advances "what Christianity is all about". I fail to see the connection.

Do you think that the priest's back crushes out the Christian spirit, but his face improves upon it?

I am not being willfully obtuse here.
It just strikes me that this business about the way the priest faces and the excessive anger about the 91st Psalm hymn are just symbols for things that really bother people.
And it strikes me that a redirect would not be such a bad thing.
It just seems crabby to get so angry over such a minor thing.
And I quite like the song, actually.


81 posted on 07/27/2005 3:10:05 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Vicomte13
But how does the priest's facing the congregation or having his back to them have anything to do with increasing or lessening the love of one's neighbor?

It doesn't until you end up arguing with people who don't agree with your idea of how the priest should face. I don't care which way he faces. We aren't told explicitly which way Jesus faced, but I doubt he turned his back to the apostles when he gave them the bread of life and the cup. I don't care. It's a nonissue with me.

It was ordered, and orders must be followed, even though it isn't clear what all the reams of documents coming out of Vatican II really said about it, if anything. Following orders, rules, and forms are more important than being nice to people and refusing to shake hands with them at mass because they didn't used to do it that way. Do you get the connection or have I gone completely off the deep end?

The words are uplifting, and the music is not terrible. It just seems to be a red flag symbolic thing that gets people angrier than I understand.

People get locked into thinking a certain way and don't like their boats rocked. Palestrino or guitars? The earliest masses had neither, and they seemed to do all right for a short while. Then the bickering began and has only worsened over 2000 years.

But likewise, I can't see how the priest facing the congregation as he performs the consecration improves "loving one's neighbor" or better advances "what Christianity is all about". I fail to see the connection.

Because they hate you if you disagree with them. It isn't only about which way the priest faces. It's about a myriad of other things.

Do you think that the priest's back crushes out the Christian spirit, but his face improves upon it?

No, why would it? Now other behaviors of priests can definitely crush the spirit out of people. I just don't want God to turn his back on me because I got so finicky I rejected the rest of humanity as inferiors who weren't worth bothering with and were hellbound because they didn't belong to the right religion, and if they did, weren't part of the "select few" who got everything just right and care more about which way the priest faces than who they hurt.

And I quite like the song, actually.

You brought it up. I didn't, as I don't know the song, but I can read the psalm. I don't care what music they use so long as it is respectful. Guitars are fine with me. Pianos, harpsichords, lyres (don't have that any more), flutes, oboes, violins; none of it bothers me. Drums I can do without as they are too much like the base on rap music I am forced to listen to in the car going along next to me and then being stuck at a red light right next to them.

Some things said here have gotten me so upset (there is little love of neighbor here except on the prayer threads) that I mentioned them to my Catholic therapist and my sister. They both asked me, "Why do you talk to those people?" Ans. It's a conservative forum, and I'm conservative about a lot of things, some things the pope says like fetal stem cell research, surrogate parenting (a slippery slope to me), cloning, and not buying a book that makes Muslims mad made sense to me. I won't go into what made one of them throw me out of the church.

I was trying to return to the church, but I don't know if I will ever go back. It's too confusing and inhospitable with all the bickering and has made me literally ill, as I can't handle conflict. Polite disagreements I can handle quite nicely. Hateful words hurt, sometimes for weeks.

I decided how we treat other people, including the dregs of humanity, is more important than what goes on at mass. I think it's supposed to be about worshipping God, but I'll be darned if I ever figured out how to worship God "in spirit and in truth" in that climate.

98 posted on 07/27/2005 4:05:27 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Vicomte13
It just seems crabby to get so angry over such a minor thing. And I quite like the song, actually.

Well, that depends on whether it is indeed "such a minor thing" as you put it. Theologically the Mass is always turned to God. Only in the dialogues from the altar does the priest speak to the people. All the rest is prayer to the Father mediated through Christ in the Holy Spirit. The question is: should theology be visible?

145 posted on 07/27/2005 8:48:00 PM PDT by Diva
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