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To: SaltyJoe; Cronos; MarMema; FormerLib; A. Pole; broadsword
Muslim women don't do this to degrade themselves as slaves, but to keep them from become slave masters over weak men.

Sorry, don't agree with you on this for a second. It is the duty of the individual to guard against his own conduct. It is the job of each man not to sin or be tempted (though I myself have failed, I still try) not the women who must hide everything so you aren't tempted.

Women in Islamic cultures, most of them, are none-entities with few rights and fewer powers, worth less then farm animals in some.

74 posted on 07/26/2005 9:31:24 AM PDT by jb6 ( Free Haghai Sophia! Crusade!)
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To: jb6
Sorry, don't agree with you on this for a second. It is the duty of the individual to guard against his own conduct. It is the job of each man not to sin or be tempted

I must disagree on several points. The first is the fact that a person cannot refrain from doing something passive. It cannot be a person's responsibility to "not be tempted" any more than it can be there responsibility to "not be hit" or to "not be rained on." That doesn't mean a person does not have the responsibility to try to flee from danger, or to come in out of the rain, but that isn't always possible.

Temptation is a sin that is committed against someone. It is an attack on a person's soul. Just like an attack on a person's body, it can be resisted, fled, etc. and since the soul is always defended by free will, the target is always at moral fault when they do succumb to temptation. But our sins are not absolved by other people's guilt. It is the responsibility of every Christian to avoid doing anything which would tempt another to sin.

As in, But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea. (Matthew 18:6)

And see especially, But take heed lest perhaps this your liberty become a stumblingblock to the weak...shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ hath died? Now when you sin thus against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat scandalize my brother, I will never eat flesh, lest I should scandalize my brother. (1 Corinthians 8:9,11-3)

...not the women who must hide everything so you aren't tempted.

See, In like manner women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire, But as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works. (1 Timothy 2:9-10)

And, For many have perished by the beauty of a woman, and hereby lust is enkindled as a fire. (Ecclesiasticus 9:10)

It is a basic principle of charity that we support one another, not undermine them. If you know a person is a struggling alcholic, it is an obvious sin to waive a beer under his nose, and a lame excuse to say, "Hey, it's his job not to drink."

Not that your excuse is particularly unusual. Am I my brother's keeper? (Genesis 4:9) has seen a lot of use in the past 6,000 years. But then again, God hasn't accept it in all that time, and I don't expect him to change His mind any time soon.

87 posted on 07/26/2005 3:14:57 PM PDT by Credo_in_unum_deum (Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.)
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To: jb6

Maybe your experience with Muslim countries are different than mine. I haven't been to Afghanistan while the Taliban conducted their reign of terror. Nor have I been to Iran. Most of the Muslims I've lived or worked with had to compete for popularity like any other seeking human respect. Not all Muslims follow the same Islamic culture as Islam has no equivalent Apostolic succession that Christianity has with the Catholic Church. But Islamics do revere Our Blessed Virgin. Virgin Mary icons are easily recognizable to them (sometimes simply by the way Our Lady is dressed) and She will only lead souls to Christ.


89 posted on 07/26/2005 3:34:14 PM PDT by SaltyJoe ("Social Justice" begins with the unborn child.)
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