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To: Claud; kosta50; Agrarian; Kolokotronis; MarMema; FormerLib

Yep, I'm telling you just that, Claud.
"On to what extent [Augustine] is responsible for ECUSA and modernism, look. Either the modernists are misinterpreting him and/or drawing unwarrented conclusions from his writings, in which case why blame him? Or, he intentionally laid the groundwork for modernism, in which case why is he a saint? You telling me that some idiot couldn't do the same thing with St. Basil or St. John Chrysostom?"

I and other Orthodox Christians, went through some of this over the past two-three weeks with the Roman Catholics (see the string "Eastern Orthodox Ecclesiology: against false unions [my title]"). Finally, after about 410 posts, I think the discussion with the RCs has ended, but some of it touched on Augustine.
I'll try to keep it short and simple.
Unlike any other Christian father, Augustine allowed for the use of reason, for Greek wisdom. Because of that, he tacitly allowed for individualism. His thinking was not immediately accepted on these matters. His most major opponent was St. Vincent of Lerins whose constant dreambeat in the "Commonitory" was Tradition, "that which has been believed everywhere, always, and by all."
For more on Augustine and his influence on Western life and thought (for better or worse, depending on who you are), from an Orthodox perspective, one might want to snag a copy of Fr. Michael Azkoul's ONCE DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS. Reviews have been posted at http://www.stnectariospress.com/parish/azkoul's_reviews.html
Have a great day.


14 posted on 07/19/2005 4:05:36 AM PDT by Graves (Orthodoxy or death!)
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To: Graves
Unlike any other Christian father, Augustine allowed for the use of reason, for Greek wisdom.

En arche en ho logos. You tell me where that "logos" came from.

15 posted on 07/19/2005 9:27:49 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Graves
For more on Augustine and his influence on Western life and thought (for better or worse, depending on who you are)

I'm familiar with the gist of the Orthodox argument, but to say that Augustine influenced the West is only stating the obvious.

I ain't enough of a Patristics scholar to debate you or the other EO folks very long on this point. But I say again, and just as strongly, if you think that some monstrous deformity cannot be twisted out of the Eastern Fathers as easily as the Western, you are living in a strange world.

16 posted on 07/19/2005 9:45:32 AM PDT by Claud
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