Churchmen on brink of exodus over women bishops

Times Online ^ | Christopher Morgan

[sionnsar]

ON THE eve of a critical vote on the creation of women bishops in the Church of England, a senior figure has warned he and hundreds of priests will quit if the move is approved.

Andrew Burnham, Bishop of Ebbsfleet, this weekend becomes the first leading churchman to state that he would be likely to defect to the Roman Catholic Church.

The General Synod will tomorrow be asked to vote on the first stage of the process for “removing the legal obstacles to the ordination of women to the episcopate”. A vote in favour will set in train church legislation that may take three years.

“A woman bishop wouldn’t be a bishop because a bishop is someone whose ministry is acceptable through the ages to all other bishops,” said Burnham. “A Church of England with women bishops would no longer have a united episcopate. Bishops would no longer be what they say they are. I would have to leave.”

He said he would be forced to quit if Anglicans did not make proper provision for opponents of women bishops, and indicated that he believed 800 priests would follow suit.

Until now leading opponents of women bishops have kept their counsel in the belief the church could provide a free (or third) “province” in addition to those of Canterbury and York.

It would have only male bishops, and its members could be drawn from anybody subject to the archbishops of Canterbury and York.

It has recently become clear that a majority of the House of Bishops would not support such a compromise. Traditionalists face the prospect of serving in the church alongside women bishops or leaving.

Geoffrey Kirk, national secretary of Forward in Faith, the main Anglo-Catholic group in the church, was as candid as Burnham. “One option is to become a Roman Catholic. I don’t think there is any other option for me.”

If the church does not provide a free province Kirk said he would have to make a stark choice. “It would be a choice between becoming a Roman Catholic or digging in in my parish and preparing for a period of litigation.”

John Broadhurst, Bishop of Fulham, who has long been linked with plans to create an Anglican-style grouping within the Roman Catholic Church, forecast that the Church of England would face an exodus if the third province compromise were rejected.

“The introduction of women bishops without proper provision (for opponents) would be intolerable,” he said. Asked if the Roman Catholic Church would be the destination of clergy and bishops if no provision were made, he said: “There certainly would be a very large haemorrhage.”

Last week a group of bishops warned that proceeding with the plans would endanger the unity of the church.

A further sign of that disunity was evident last week when it emerged that Lord Carey, former Archbishop of Canterbury, had angered Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, the Archbishop of Westminster, by agreeing to become patron of the campaign for the ordination of women in the Roman Catholic Church.

The cardinal wrote to Carey questioning the decision of the former leader of the Anglican communion to lend his name to a marginal group calling for reform in the Catholic church. Carey has since removed his name from a list of patrons backing the group’s aims.

Additional reporting: Alex Delmar-Morgan

[Martin Tell]

for Heaven's sake work on the music

LOL. A few years ago there was an article in First Things about the struggles of a (Lutheran) convert to Roman Catholicism to find a decent parish. She related that her kids were soon begging to go back to "Mr. Bach's Church."

Eventually she found a small, working class parish that still used Latin.

[warsaw44]

- guitar strummers included!

[Wessex]

"Welcome home, Bishop Burnham."


Home to what? More heresy, more novelty, more women in proxy roles snapping at their ankles? An Anglican bishop flying between traditional outposts will surely find the modern English Catholic scene now in terminal decline to be rather an alien environment.

[ninenot]

They might balk if we specify Kaspar.

Otherwise it looks rather good.

[ninenot]

Two reasons for text changes: 1) PC; 2) Copyright money.

[BelegStrongbow]

I'm sorry to hear that. Where I am, the majority are also evangelical, but that extends across the denominations. The ECUSAns here, well, their Laodicean and I think we know what was said about that crowd.

We're in the same boat, except that I could volunteer to start a parish that is Catholic in the Anglican tradition and not have to wait on others for it. I'm glad you have found a home you can feel more comfortable in, sister.

In Christ,
Deacon Paul+

[InterestedQuestioner]

Now that is what I call a welcoming invitation!!

Yes indeed! You are most welcome here.

Hey, fellow Catholics, since the bridge hasn't been rebuilt yet, can we sent out a boat so folks don't have to get all wet? Isn't the Barque of Peter about ready to come out of the shop? No point in being uncivilized about this.

How about we'll bring the boat, and you bring the music? Also, be sure to pack up the Liturgical expertise, the diplomacy skills, the sense of decor during worship, the no-nonsense attitudes for dealing with liberal hijackers of the Gospel, and the fine tradition of a glass of sherry after mass. We'd especially appreciate that last one. And don't let any of our heterodox bretheren give you any guff when you get over here either, they're days of being allowed to run amuck outside the peanut gallery are numbered, and they know it. You just give 'em a good ol' Anglo Catholic cup of what-for if they cause you any troubles, and make yourselves at home. Mi casa es su casa. BTW, would you mind helping out with the readings when you feel comfortably settled in? It would be much appreciated.

Also, do you think Bishop Akinola will be coming over with you? Don't know too much about the man, but he's certainly seems to have a knack for getting to the point. It might do us some good to have him head the US Bishops conference for a year or two, or perhaps oversee the seminarian recruitment programs. We don't really have anybody to trade, but we'll send Teddy Kennedy and John Kerry over for lunch with Bishop Griswald, maybe they'll hit it off.

BTW, speaking of music, as a post Vatican II Catholic, I grew up thinking that Church music was supposed to sound bad. Your talents will be most welcome, and couldn't come at a better time.

[InterestedQuestioner]

By the way, if you don't feel you have any talents personally, just come as you are, I'm sure you'll find a suitable project soon enough.

As for the Faithful Anglican Ministers, I can't wait for them to set up shop here. We already had a large contingency of Ministers from the Calvinist tradition move in, and they wasted no time in assessing the damages in the Church, and getting right to work. They efficiently went about clearing out the termites, shoring up the timbers, dusting off the bibles, and livening things up quite a bit. One thinks of Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi and the many others who have blessed the Church with their tireless efforts. I know I'm a much better Catholic for their work.

Fr. Neuhaus has also joined the Church from the Lutheran tradition, and has set the bar high for our young priests. I'm also learning to sing in Church now, no doubt due in large part due to the influence of many Lutheran converts who overcame their horror at our tuneless noise making and have begun to straighten us out.

There's always plenty to do here. :-)

[AnAmericanMother]

There's always plenty to do everywhere!

The Barque of Peter has steered the straightest, though, so I think the Church will continue to gather in orthodox faithful from all over. The "low" and/or evangelical Episcopalians are going to find it a little difficult theologically, I think - they are more likely to head to the LCMS or one of the independent hardshell Evangelical churches (we have a lot of them in the South). But the "high" Episcopalians I think are going to gravitate towards Rome if no "high church" breakaway is available.

[SuzyQue]

Churchmen on brink of exodus over women bishops Well, here's my humble opinion, and a popular one it's bound to be: Bye, and good riddance.

[InterestedQuestioner]

There's always plenty to do everywhere!

Amen!!

[sionnsar]

and the fine tradition of a glass of sherry after mass. We'd especially appreciate that last one.

Um.

Okay...

But this is a new one (tradition) to me...

[ninenot]

Hear, Hear!!

Tallis will be fine. Byrd and RVWilliams, too.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Ping.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

The concept of "social justice" is of and from Satan. 7 posted on 07/11/2005 4:21:37 AM EDT by dsc

Bravo!

I agree. It usually means socialism or some variation of the kooky liberal psychopolitics that infects the goofier and less sober wack-job circles of the clergy.

[redgolum]

I'm also learning to sing in Church now, no doubt due in large part due to the influence of many Lutheran converts who overcame their horror at our tuneless noise making and have begun to straighten us out.

In my home town, the joke was if you hear horrible off key singing that was the Roman Catholics, if you hear three part harmony and an organ that shakes the paving stones that was the LCMS church.

[redgolum]

We here in the LCMS are, as usual, fighting a rather interesting internecine fight. There are a number of new congregations trying to do the Theology of Glory, which is rather a shock to those of us raised orthodox. The whole Ablaze movement is trying to turn the good liturgical Lutherans into nondenominational charismatics.

In fact, a few congregations have gone over the Bosporus to the Eastern Orthodox.

[InterestedQuestioner]

LCMS charismatics???

[InterestedQuestioner]

LCMS charismatics???

[redgolum]

The Ablaze movement is turning away from the liturgy to a kind of ever changing make-it-up as you go worship style, focused more on feelings.

Perhaps charismatic was the wrong word, but trying to describe the theology of glory in a short space is hard.