Posted on 07/10/2005 7:17:12 AM PDT by sionnsar
ON THE eve of a critical vote on the creation of women bishops in the Church of England, a senior figure has warned he and hundreds of priests will quit if the move is approved.
Andrew Burnham, Bishop of Ebbsfleet, this weekend becomes the first leading churchman to state that he would be likely to defect to the Roman Catholic Church.
“A woman bishop wouldn’t be a bishop because a bishop is someone whose ministry is acceptable through the ages to all other bishops,” said Burnham. “A Church of England with women bishops would no longer have a united episcopate. Bishops would no longer be what they say they are. I would have to leave.”
He said he would be forced to quit if Anglicans did not make proper provision for opponents of women bishops, and indicated that he believed 800 priests would follow suit.
Until now leading opponents of women bishops have kept their counsel in the belief the church could provide a free (or third) “province” in addition to those of Canterbury and York.
It would have only male bishops, and its members could be drawn from anybody subject to the archbishops of Canterbury and York.
It has recently become clear that a majority of the House of Bishops would not support such a compromise. Traditionalists face the prospect of serving in the church alongside women bishops or leaving.
Geoffrey Kirk, national secretary of Forward in Faith, the main Anglo-Catholic group in the church, was as candid as Burnham. “One option is to become a Roman Catholic. I don’t think there is any other option for me.”
If the church does not provide a free province Kirk said he would have to make a stark choice. “It would be a choice between becoming a Roman Catholic or digging in in my parish and preparing for a period of litigation.”
John Broadhurst, Bishop of Fulham, who has long been linked with plans to create an Anglican-style grouping within the Roman Catholic Church, forecast that the Church of England would face an exodus if the third province compromise were rejected.
“The introduction of women bishops without proper provision (for opponents) would be intolerable,” he said. Asked if the Roman Catholic Church would be the destination of clergy and bishops if no provision were made, he said: “There certainly would be a very large haemorrhage.”
Last week a group of bishops warned that proceeding with the plans would endanger the unity of the church.
A further sign of that disunity was evident last week when it emerged that Lord Carey, former Archbishop of Canterbury, had angered Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, the Archbishop of Westminster, by agreeing to become patron of the campaign for the ordination of women in the Roman Catholic Church.
The cardinal wrote to Carey questioning the decision of the former leader of the Anglican communion to lend his name to a marginal group calling for reform in the Catholic church. Carey has since removed his name from a list of patrons backing the group’s aims.
Additional reporting: Alex Delmar-Morgan
I would be willing to throw in all sorts of stuff -- felt banners, a liturgical dancer to be named later -- < g >
I very much agree. At that time I was still unchurched, having left Rome as a teenager. When I came back, we found an Anglo-Catholic parish (a huge one, btw) which used the 1977 BCP, both Rites I and II. I never felt totally comfortable with the service (and didn't really know why) though the Holy Spirit was truly with the congregation. Still, the difference when I found the 1928 BCP was stark and final and while I pray for ultimate reunion among the various traditional Anglican provinces, I am happy with the Province I am now in.
In Christ,
Deacon Paul+
Going to be a limited trade, unless you're wanting the (IMHO) clunky 1979 BCP (the subject of "Neither Orthodoxy Nor A Formulary: The Shape and Content of the 1979 Prayer Book of ECUSA" by the Rev’d Dr. Louis R. Tarsitano and the Rev’d Dr. Peter Toon).
Not many of us using the 1928 BCP have any desire for guitars.
As was the difference when I rediscovered the 1928.
The cardinal wrote to Carey questioning the decision of the former leader of the Anglican communion to lend his name to a marginal group calling for reform in the Catholic church.
What's Church-Speak for "What the hell's the matter with you?"
OK.
We'll give them Mahony, Pilla, and Pilarczyk for ONE orthodox Bishop and a good set of "Rules of Croquet."
In contrast, our new Archdiocese and especially our new parish is not just a breath of fresh air - it's a whole planetary atmosphere . . . whew!
We'll also need a few other primers in this trade. "A Guide to Change Ringing of Bells". "Serving After Mass Refreshements". "Latin-English Translation, The Tudor Method". "Proper Dress and Comportment at Mass and Congregational Singing: A How To Guide"
As additional compensation, we could also spot them Bishops Hubbard and Gumbleton and the Voice of the Faithful crowd and Cardinal Kaspar.
The veterans of the Thames-Tiber Crawlstroke are waiting for you. Please bring an Anglican Use Province with you.
This is neat ...
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/spider/kvdoel/bells/bells.html
There's much to like, but, as you imply, thirty years of vernacular liturgy (with much of it inspired by heretics) simply cannot hold a candle to the five hundred year-long Anglican liturgy development.
And the hymns! We opened last week with "Praise to the Lord, The Almighty, the king of Creation" (very, very good) but it was followed with incomprehensible Kumbaya-wannabe gibberish.
Borrow some Anglicanisms, for Heaven's sake work on the music, and we'll see...
Change ringing is awesome - but we'll have to get some bells in some of the parish churches, or maybe we can start with the cathedrals . . .
North American Guild of Change Ringers
Nine Tailors bump!
. . . been there, done that, got the T-shirt . . .
He has to throw in junk like "Gift of Finest Wheat" from time to time for the few but noisy Kum-ba-ya crowd (we do have a few - and if folks want horrible stuff for their funerals, we oblige gladly and without complaining). And the parish has been using that awful Haagen "Massive Cremation" for years . .. he's plotting to introduce substitutes when choir practice begins again in the fall. Anybody familiar with the "Danish Mass"? I don't know it, but if our choirmaster thinks it's good, it's OK.
Here's my gripe: why do the printers of the Missalette feel they have to change the words of all the hymns EVER so slightly? I have been in Episcopal choirs since age 6, I can sing the first verse of every hymn in the 1940 hymnal from memory (and most in the 82), and with the tried and true ones like "Praise Ye the Lord" and "Crown Him With Many Crowns" I know all the verses from memory. So when they ring in a different word here and there, it drives me NUTS (I always realize it as the word is marching automatically out of my mouth and it's too late to get it back . . . )
This happens to me all the time!
I think it's often a copyright issue-the music is in the public domain but the words may not be.
In other cases, it's something stupid-like, for example, in "We Gather Together" the missalette cuts the line, "Ordaining, Maintaining His Kingdom Divine" because (according to our CM) only bishops can ordain (OK, not stupid-really, really stupid).
Maybe its a copyright thing? The varied hymns drive me crazy too. "All Glory, Praise, and Honor, To You Redeemer King" just doesn't sound right.
I'm not familiar enough with the english Nervous Disorder plainchant masses, although I have heard of the two you mention.
Aren't there plainchant settings in English in the 1982 Hymnal? Why not use those?
If it's a copyright issue, I wouldn't think changing a word here and there would save them. Besides, most of them are long out of copyright. "We Gather Together" dates from the 17th century, the translation from 1894. "Crown Him With Many Crowns" was written in the 1850s (it has a dynamite descant however, that is still in copyright in the 1982 Hymnal. I sing it to myself whenever we get to the last verse. "Praise My Soul the King of Heaven" was our closing hymn last Sunday - another great descant on the verse "Angels help us to adore him, ye behold him face to face.")
Priestesses have been instrumental in the destruction of ECUSA. I have yet to meet an Episcopagan priestess who was not a radical feminist, or a lesbian, or most commonly both. None have been Christians.
We're doing Gregorian right now. I hope to interest our choirmaster in the four- and six- part Anglican chant sooner or later - all in good time. There's one for Good Friday (setting of Ps. 22) that is just absolutely incredible - I'm starting to work on the choirmaster NOW for next year.
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